Clint:
Hi!  Welcome to the Wedding Ceremony Podcast.  We’re in double digits.  Oh, my God.  

JP:
Happy Anniversary, Clint.

Clint:
Thank you so much.  We are recording on Tuesday, April 8, 2014.  You know, JP, I'll be honest with you.  When we first started this we thought that we would never run out of things to say and that has proven to be true because every time over the last few weeks I've said to myself, okay, let's talk about the XY & Z and we don’t even come close to it.  Because we go off on a side note.  But it's still incredibly valid.  I really have enjoyed the way we have explored the dynamics.  It's interesting how deep you can go.  I guess, maybe because it's people, how deep you can go with what happens during the wedding ceremony.  

JP:
Very much so. Very much so.

Clint:
Also the getting ready for.   Have you noticed on the wedding day how relieved everybody, everybody, I mean, the bride and groom, especially the families, wedding party, the guests, especially the wedding professionals, how relieved they are the second that the ceremony is concluded?  It's a miracle.  Like 500 elephants are off of everybody’s shoulders.  I wonder why that is?  I always talk about how there's this little sliver of time and the emotional content and all that kind of stuff but I've heard wedding coordinators, the best of the best, say if I can just get them down the aisle then the rest is cake. 

JP:
I just had a planner say that to me.  I always say to couples, all I need is for you to get down the aisle and everything else is on my shoulders.  

Clint:
Actually, I'm glad you phrased it that way.  Because what I want to talk about this week is the little things that have caught us by surprise over the 20+ years that you and I have both been doing this.  Just to be clear that's 20 years each.  I probably should do a little bookkeeping right now.  What do you call it when you start a meeting?  You can see JP at JP Rweddings.com and I’m at ReverendClint.com.  Remember our website which is WeddingCeremonyPodcast.com.  Right there on the homepage is a big button that says “email us” and that's how we find out what you want.  So by all means.  And I want to give props to the wonderful group that's been providing our music.  It's the DaCapo players.  It’s D-A-C-A-P-O players.  You go to DaCapoPlayers.com and hear the beautiful music.  They're fantastic.  They have been our intro and outro music.  Right, so, little things.  Little things.  I always say that if you if you talk to somebody who hasn't been in business for a long time they don't have the scars, the war wounds.  They haven’t been slapped enough in order to really understand how to avoid the the pitfalls that can come with a wedding ceremony.  I’m talking about anything that breaks the concentration. 

JP:
Nice, nice.  I like that phrase “breaks the concentration”.  

Clint:
The biggest thing is when you need something and it's not there.  Have you ever turned around to the table… Okay listen to this.  This is obviously a while ago.  The couple was going to do a handfasting ceremony.  For those of you not familiar with that, it's really simple.  The couple holds hands and then you can use a cord, ropes, decorative cords, whatever and you talk about aspects of the marriage to be.  I love the language.  We can get into that another time.  I needed the chords.  I have about eight different sets of chords and I let the couples choose and then we use that.  I had left the chords in the bridal suite.  So here's how I handled it.  It's time to do the handfasting and I explain the ritual.  I realize I am not holding the chords and they are not on the table right behind me and nobody near me has them.  So I just and thank goodness for groomsmen because they are really servants and they are at our beck and call.  I just I turn to the best man I said - fortunately the bridal suite was about 50 yards away - and so I just said, “I left I left the ropes in the room.  Can you go get them quickly?”  Then while he was running across the grass to the room I then further explained what we're about to do.  By the time I got done he was back and we went right into it.  But that was one of those make sure this never happens again moments.  Have you ever had anything like that?

JP:
Oh yeah and you know the reality is we all learn the hard way.  So we all need to have one of those experiences in order to learn from it.  No matter how careful we are at some point in time there will be slip up like that.  I had and an experience where the best man did not have the rings.  It was a wedding where it was an event planner I worked with frequently in the past who was really good at what she does.  It’s just one of those things where she forgot to give the rings to the groom, to the best man, and I forgot before the ceremony to double check to make sure he had the rings.  So I turned and I asked for the rings and he shakes his head says he doesn't have them.  I thought he was joking.  I’m thinking, you know, this is not funny.  Just give me the rings.  Suddenly, after doing this a couple of times, it's like I realized OMG, he doesn't have the rings.  Turned out that the rings were back at the hotel.  So what we did was I made a lighthearted comment and we proceeded to the  conclusion of the ceremony.  Then I actually was meeting some people at Starbucks nearby afterwards and I went back to the reception and just before they started their meal the rings arrived and we had a very cute ring exchange.  

Clint:
That's cool.  Logistics don't always give us that opportunity.  Sometimes we gotta go.  There is a guy who has a really busy officiant business in Southern California.  It's GreatOfficiants.com.  He has a stable of officiants.  He’s got about 29 to 30 officiants that work for his company.  JP I know that you and I are sole proprietors and were kind of, you know, here we are.  It's us.  You know what it's like when when someone calls you and you want to be able to to help everybody but you're already booked.  We refer each other but we don't have that kind of a business.  He does.  What that means is that he does a ton of weddings.  Last year his company did about 1000 ceremonies.  He himself is always first in line depending upon what the couple needs.  He has kind of like an emergency kit.  Wedding coordinators have an emergency kit.  Makeup artists, florists, they all have emergency kits.  Officiants, not so much.  But he does.  He always has a battery-powered sound system.  He's got fake rings.  He's got, no I'm serious, he’s got fake rings, extra unity candles.  He does Hawaiian ceremonies so he’s got extra leis.  He does Filipino ceremonies so he’s got coins and the rope and all this kind of stuff.  Now you and I have been blessed to do a lot of interfaith ceremonies and in a lot of different traditions and cultures but he's packed and ready to go.  All that stuff is in his car and every now and then on his Facebook page he’ll express frustration with some of the wedding vendor that you know didn't step up to the plate.  But he was able to fill in the blanks and I admire that.  But that's a tremendous amount of pressure.  To have all of that kind of stuff.  I met him a number of years ago.  I actually have a little bag of fake rings.  There was one wedding before I had any of that.  You know the thing that is silly is that I put together an emergency kit.  And I never take it with me.  Fortunately the level of people we work with there’s hardly ever an issue for concern.  In the the rare occasions where they’ve forgotten the marriage license or they forgot the rings or whatever it doesn't mean the ceremony stops.  I tell everybody the ceremony does not stop.  Have the ceremony.  Tell everybody how much you love each other.  Tell everybody: this is my wife. This is my husband.  Ceremony does not stop.  You stay on schedule.  Everyone watches.  Everybody applauds you.  There really is no reason for the guests to understand if anything is missing anyway.  

JP:
Exactly.

Clint:
Just fill in the blanks later.  Sometimes with a marriage license you literally fill in the blanks later.  With this one couple his ring was not there and so I just let them use my ring for the ceremony.  The only thing is that I wear like a size 13 ring.  For those of you that don’t know anything about jewelry that's kind of like a fat finger.  His ring size was probably an eight. So when she put it on his finger, his finger was swimming inside this big circle.  But it worked.  The only thing is that there's emotional disconnect because you talk about the significance of the rings and with this ring I thee wed and la la la la la.  Whatever they decide to say.   I felt just a little bit bad because that's my ring.  That’s not your ring.  You don’t get to keep that ring.   So a little bit was lost there because of that.

JP:
Right right right.  Interesting.  

Clint:
Have you ever considered having like an emergency kit?

JP:
Well, it’s not actually an emergency kit.  I always have in my car in extra shirt and tie in case I have lunch before the ceremony and I splatter my white shirt.  So I always have the white shirt and tie in the car.  I have in the car a binder of the readings that I had sent to the couple.  So I have a backup of readings.  

Clint:
Do you have your ceremony in front of you?  How much is right in front of you to be read and how much of it just comes from you?  

JP:
Well, because I do a lot of keynote speaking and because I teach I have most of the ceremonies memorized.   And like yourself I'm able to think on my feet.  You're right.  Nobody knows what's supposed to happen in the ceremony.  So I always say to people the only person who can make a mistake is me.  Since I’m not going to admit it, nobody’s going to know there’s been a mistake.  

Clint:
There you go.  That’s the key.  Never let them see you sweat. 

JP:
Exactly.  Because we're in a bubble, the three of us, myself or yourself and whoever couple is, people in the last row don't know what's going on.  I mean that's a little harsh but because people from the middle row on to the they don’t necessarily see exactly what's happening.  So, I've had issues with the rings before.  The ring for the bride wasn't there and I just turn to the maid of honor and asked for her ring.  The way I’m doing it people think that it's part of the ritual.  

Clint;
Right.  Because it's common for the maid of honor to be holding the ring.  

JP:
Exactly.  I thing the most humorous aspect of the rings was one time they had the rings tied to a pillow and they had the three-year-old present the rings.  I'm always nervous when it's a three-year-old.  And I’m a little nervous about the pillow because I wasn't a Boy Scout and what about the knot?  That sort of thing.  So I pulled the knot for the one ring and it slips out beautifully.  I pull the string for the second ring and it just forms this incredible knot.  

Clint:
With those little ribbons.  And we have big man fingers.

JP:
I could not get the ring off.  So then the groom tries.  He can’t do it.  Now people are laughing.  The best man tries.  The maid of honor tries.  Finally it took the photographer to whip out a penknife and cut it off.  So after that, whenever people say they’re going to have the pillow I start to hyperventilate.  

Clint:
What I do is when they say there’s going to be a Ring Bearer, the first first question is how old?  And if they tell me something - this is just kind of a basic rule of thumb - anything younger than six, I’ll say, well, you may not want them to have the actual rings.  If for some reason somebody, some emotional connection to the ritual, whatever it is, then I say, okay, I just want to make sure that I tie the rings onto the pillow.  It's just my own security blanket.  I tie it.  I know exactly how secure it is.  I know exactly how to untie it.  If I'm in control of that then when they get up in front of me… Here's the other thing that I do.  I'll make sure the kid goes directly up the aisle right to the best man.  Like immediately.  Because then the best man can get the rings off of the pillow while nobody is looking.  They are looking at the bride.  The bride is about to do her processional, which is the entrance, and everybody’s back is facing the altar, so to speak, and then I tell the best man, get those rings off of there.  Make sure they’re really secure in your pocket or on your fingers or whatever.  Then let the kid go away.  My reasoning is to do all that, it may sound a little of obsessive-compulsive, but I'm thinking of the child.  It's the kid that could suffer the most because people are kinda dopey and they'll think that they're making a joke in kidding around.  But children take stuff to heart.  Somebody will inevitably say, “Well, you almost ruined the wedding.”  You know kids really think that.  There are some adults that are dopey and they think that too.  Anything you can do to protect the child so that you can avoid 30 years of therapy then it's worth it.  It’s totally worth it.  There was one, we were at the beach.  So you can imagine the ring hits the sand and whoa nelly.  But the bride said, no he really wants to carry the rings.  I just went, okay, step by step by step.  Let me tie them to make sure that it’s good.  Go right to the best man.  It’s all the name of protecting that child from someone. 

JP:
I will tell you you're very nice because if it was on the beach and my rule of thumb is if you are not old enough to have a beer you're not old enough to have the real rings.  Having said that, I agree with you.  There are times when the child may be the couple’s child.  So they want the child to present the rings.  First of all, when it's a young child, I referred to it as the protector of the rings.  So they kind of give it that, you know, Lord of the Rings feel in a it's kind of manly. 

Clint:
Oh, wait.  I have to interrupt you.  Remember where you are.  One of the creepiest things ever, speaking of Lord of the Rings.  There was a ringbearer that when I was in the groom’s room checking everything the kid kept saying, “My preciousssss!”  Oh my gosh.  I kind of slowly backed out of the room.  It was very funny and very creepy all same time.  Okay, go ahead. 

JP:
What I really trying to do is to encourage people rather than the pillow to have the rings in a decorative box.  I actually had really young children who they wanted to have the rings they put it in a whimsical type of box that captured the theme of the wedding.  I would be so hyper nervous on the beach with the pillow.  I would have said to them just get a clamshell or something. However, let me say in all of these many years doing weddings, I could count on one hand the number of times someone dropped the ring. 

Clint:
Oh sure, yeah.  But it only takes that one time. The beach weddings are interesting because there were a couple of times instead of having a pillow or a box that actually have shells.  Open shells.  The rings were to sit on the shells and be delivered.  Assuming that the shells were going to stay completely horizontal.  

JP:
It’s especially difficult here in Southern California because no matter what the season no matter what time of the year our beaches are always windy.

Clint:
The wind really picks up the closer you get to Sunset.  That's another thing.  Okay, let's move off of the rings.  When the wind picks up, what I say to every maid of honor, if the bride has a veil I say, there is a possibility that during the ceremony I’m going to look at you and say would you please hold that.  It doesn't mean you take it off and give it to the maid of honor.  What it means is the maid of honor just takes a step, reaches out with what we call the upstage hand which is the the one farthest away from the guests, and just holds the edge of the veil so it's not a distraction.  Because when the wind swirls, have you seen it where that's like a snake dance?  Now there are little weights.  Somebody invented little veil weights that are a godsend.  Have you seen those?  Not everybody is aware or knows how to get them.  If they have the veil and they're in a windy location.  I always try to say, oh, your going to get married at ba ba ba.  Just be aware gets a little breezy.  

JP:
Right.  Now as men we will never understand the emotional attachment the bride has to a veil.  Because when the wind comes, I just want to say, take it off.  

Clint:
You know that's really easy to do because it is just a comb. 

JP:
My experience has been maid of honors are so fabulous.  They are just right there.  And jump to.  The overwhelming majority of brides know how to pick a good maid of honor. 

Clint:
We’re almost out of time but one real quickly about the maid of honor.  Sometimes when everybody stands up for the bride's entrance these girls that are sometimes really invested in their friend and the magic of this friend's wedding day.  Everybody stands up then all of a sudden they can't see the bride walk up the aisle.  So there were a couple of times where I've said to the bridesmaids, “Come here.  Come here.”  And they all come close to me, look up the aisle and I always think from the bride’s standpoint how cool that is.  Where you see the little heads of the bridesmaids just lit up.  Maybe there’s some tears as they watch.  Then when she gets about halfway up, I’ll say, “Okay.  Go back, go back.”   Do what we can in order to share that moment. 
Well, we’ve run out of time.  This was good.  We’re probably going to pick this up next week unless of course, you know, we just go off on another tangent.  Once again I want to remind you that we really want your feedback.  Go to the website.  WeddingCeremonyPodcast.com.  Click on the email button.  Send us a note: what you want us to talk about.  What you hope we will never talk about again.  Good luck with that.  And anything else that you can offer us so that we can make this the best it can possibly be.  JPRWeddings.com is JP’s website.  I’m at ReverendClint.com.  We will have some special announcements over the next few weeks on things that we have come up with that I think will help a lot of people.  We’ll have some seminars and some products that will make available to you.  You'll see them posted on the website.  Also, JP has written some books.  You can go to Amazon and put in JP Reynolds and his e-books will come up.  They're just fantastic.

JP:
Thank you, Clint, for that plug. Onward and upward. 

Clint:
Thank you very much.  Take care.  We’ll see you next time of the Wedding Ceremony Podcast.

Clint;
Welcome to the Wedding Ceremony Podcast.  This is episode number five.  Recorded on Tuesday, March 4, 2014.  My name is Clint.  I'm with JP.  We’re going to dive right into it.  JP is hot to trot.  No, I’m serious.   We were just chatting a little bit before we started recording and I said no no, don't tell me anymore of that story.  So I'm just gonna let you jump right into it.  Go-ahead. 

JP:
This past weekend I was part of the bridal fair at a country club here in LA.  It was in the evening and one of the brides who came up to me, young woman, mid-twenties, Veronica.  She was there by herself.  She's not getting married until next year, 2015.  Doesn’t even have a date.  She said she doesn’t have a venue.  She said, “I need to figure out where I want to have my wedding.”  I said, “Where’s your fiancé?”  She said, “Oh, he’s home.  He told me that wherever I wanted to have the wedding it's fine with him.”  I’m thinking, really?  You can’t even help pick out the venue?  Now, Clint,  you and I privately have had many conversations about the role of the groom.  But that's what I want to talk about today, is the groom.   I personally don’t expect a groom to know what the color fucsia is. There’s a lot of things I don't expect the groom to to be a part of the planning process.  But, man, if you can't go with your woman, and pick out a venue, then what is this all?  

Clint:
I'd be curious to know how many of the other grooms that were at that bridal fair came of their own volition.  How many were dragged?  Now don't get me wrong.  You paint a very emotional picture of this poor young waif wandering through the wilderness of the bridal Expo.  Believe me, I completely get it.  I agree with you 100%.  There's a lot of things that the groom couldn't care less about.  Every time I hear a couple that gets engaged, l’ll say, at some point, have you started going to bridal fairs or the Expos?  I’ll look at the groom and I say, dude, free cake.  You gotta go.  It’s free cake.  Plus, you know, the food.  It’s kind of a wonderland.  It's a wonderland and a wanderland of same time.  “Wa” and “Wo”.  You kinda meander up and down the aisles and you'll see things.  You don't know what you don't know.  We see this all the time and people come to us for wedding ceremonies.  I’ll say, tell me what you want and what you don't want.  I would say half the time, “we don't know what… honey what do you think?  I don’t…”  The ceremony is, many times, the last thing they think about.  I agree with you but I would like to know the back story.  Like, when you when you watch a movie or television show or you come in on a conversation and you don't know what happened right before that.  So the context is a little bit lost.  

JP:
Absolutely.  I just want to clarify.  It's not that he didn’t go to the bridal fair.  By the way.  it was Friday night.  We are here in LA.  We had Noah's Ark kind of rain.  It was a torrential downpour. 

Clint: 
Oh, that's right.  I was out of town.  

JP:
Every groom who came up to the table with his fiancée I looked at him and I said, “props to you man.   Any groom who comes out in the storm to be with his bride gets props my book.”  And everybody laughed.  Yet with this girl it was that the groom said to her I don't care what venue you pick.  But I have a follow-up story.  On Sunday I meet with a couple getting married next year.  They come to my home, sit at my table.   In all my years of officiating I don’t think I have ever met a groom who was more dis-engaged from the conversation than this unnamed groom. 

Clint:
If you named him, would that help us?

JP:
It was so bad.  How bad was it, JP?  And, folks, please remember I am from the Bronx.  I’m channeling all of my Bronxness right now.  It was so bad that at one point I stopped the conversation and and I said, “I’m sorry.  I have to ask.  Are you happy that you're getting married?”  His head snapped up, finally, from his lap and he looked at me said, “yeah.”  You look so sad.  You look just, sad.

Clint:
You know what's great is that you and I can can say that stuff.  Because they're coming for the wedding ceremony.  They’re not coming for flowers or DJ.  We don't have that driving compulsion to sell. We've said this before.  Our whole focus is how can I help you?  How can I make this absolutely the best experience for you possible?  It is completely appropriate, where some people may think, other wedding service providers, vendors, whatever you call them, may think it's inappropriate for them.  Or they would be afraid that the sale might walk out the door.  We have that blessing of being able to do exactly what you just did.  So props to you.  So, then what happened after that?

JP:
He smiled and said no, I'm happy.  The bride said, “Oh, he's a little reserved.”  I’m thinking, do you think?  My God man.  He has his head bowed down.  Didn't look at me.  Didn't speak.  Didn't smile.  Remember, I teach interpersonal communications to professionals.  It's like, folks, this is our first date.  This is an interview.  You guys are interviewing me.  I’m interviewing you.  We’re trying to determine is there a relationship with the three of us.  Do the three of us want to stand together on your wedding day? 

Clint:
But if using the dating analogy, then the next phrase would be: Dude, he's just not that into you. 

JP:
I don’t know if he’s just not into her either.

Clint:
I have run into that scenario a few times.  We were talking about the back story.  I think that there are some people, and this is not gender specific, the bride is trying to put the whole day together.  We talk about the social pressure that she has in order to have this event that goes well so that people you know say good things.  The groom sometimes carries the weight of something that happened in his life that makes him not want to talk to anybody who's clergy.  I get that.  I understand that.  They come in and there's rebelliousness.  Or there's some sort of slight or emotional pain.  The thing that that you and I have going for us is that we don't really care too much about that kind of stuff other than how can I help you?  Which makes it kind of an interesting, fun little game.  I like the way you handle it where you just you broke his pattern and brought him into the conversation.  I don’t know how long he stayed with you after that.  There been certain times where there's open rebellion towards me.  Not antagonistic but more along the lines of that vibe of I’m not going to give you anything.  I don't care about you.  I love her.  You're just a necessity.  What I what I have found is that the more I explain how important the bride is to him.  I explain that to the bride.  Then there's more of a coming across the fence, or whatever that analogy is, in order to say oh, wait a minute, this guy isn't going up wag his finger at me and fire and brimstone.  This guy really wants me to have a great day. 

JP:
That's a very very good point, Clint.  I experience that also.  

Clint:
I’ll bet everybody does.  Everybody who has officiated at a wedding ceremony.  Because people think you have to have some sort religious affiliation in order to do this job.  When, in fact, out here in California you don’t. 

JP:
All of this does is point to very important aspect.  I just want us to remind those who are listening, couples who are listening, how vitally important it is that they have conversations about how they imagine and envision their wedding day.  It’s not that they have to have conversations about chair covers and flowers.  But to have those big conversations.  Five years after your wedding what is it that you want people to still be talking about?  Five years after your wedding what is it that you want people to remember?  What do you want to remember about your wedding day?  I think if a couple doesn't have a conversation, right at the beginning, then people are going to hijack their wedding.  Because the bride's mother knows what kind of a wedding she wants.  The groom's mother probably knows what kind of a wedding she wants.  People are just going to swoop in.  They’re going to create a wedding that is the wedding of their dreams, with or without the consent of the couple. 

Clint:
That might be why your groom was disengaged.  Because he feels powerless.  He feels like it doesn’t make any difference what I want.  Other people make a decisions anyway.  I don't care.  I get like that.  I get like that as a guy.  There been a number of times where I've said my wife okay why don’t we just cut to the chase.  Just tell me what you want.  Let's start there.  She’ll try to say, no I want you to tell me what you want.  Finally, at one point I said - this is the beauty of being married for 12 years.  Just had my anniversary actually two days ago.  I was out of town.  It was very romantic.  That’s normal.  I work this beautiful event in Columbus, Ohio every year and so with my wedding anniversary there’s only been one time in the 12 years we've been married where I was actually here we got to celebrate on the day.  My philosophy is like birthdays.  They last as long as somebody wants to celebrate it.  So we have plans. - Anyway, I remember saying to her, there's no point in me telling you what I want.  Because at some point you’re going to really try hard to get what you want.  And because this is not that big of a deal to me, just tell me what you want.  If I have some major objection I’ll say that.  So I can empathize with the grooms who feel as though what you just described has already taken place.  As far as they are concerned is what they feel in their emotional experience of the planning process is that it doesn’t make any difference what I say or what I want. Sometimes the groom will have a specific or maybe two things.  I don’t care what else happens on the day but I really want to eat pizza. Or, I don’t care what else happens on the day but when I walk in the room I want them to play Stairway to Heaven.  Whatever it is.  So when it comes to the wedding ceremony that feeling of powerlessness, I can see where that would really take a guy.  And how do we deal when we feel powerless?  We get small. 

JP:
Folks, rewind and listen again to what Clint just said.

Clint:
If you can stand it.  Don't do it while you're driving. 

JP:
Amen. Amen brother.  I would extend that little bit more.  The bride herself was a very quiet and reserved young woman.  So these are people who are not going to be dancing on the tabletop at their reception.  She did ask me for a referral for a DJ.  Then she smiled and said of course neither of us like to dance.  I said you know, you don't have to do anything you don't want to do.  Don’t get caught up in what you think a wedding should be.  Don’t get caught up in what you see in the movies and on TV.  You can create whatever celebration you want. I will say when I said that she looked relieved.  I don’t know how he looked because his head was still in his lap, nodding off.  I do think both the bride and groom if they are not familiar with weddings, if they have not been to a lot of weddings and they just are basing it on the mythology and the urban legends of what weddings are supposed to be like.  It's very easy to get sucked up into: we have to do this we have to do that.  And begin to feel miserable and powerless. a

Clint:
You kind of have to multiply that towards the groom.  Because they already feel out of the loop.  That’s okay.  A lot of the grooms will kind of embrace that role.  Oh, this is great.  I don’t have to really sweat this stuff.  She's gonna freak out and get all stressed out.  Yeah, I'll put on the clothes and I’ll show up and I'll hang with my bros. 

JP:
I’ve had grooms saying I'm just to show up.  Whatever you want, babe, is fine with me.  And they have the personality to pull that off.  They have the personality and the love and it's the good old boy.  My concern is for grooms like this fellow who are unable or unwilling to express what's going on inside their head and their heart.  My concern is that if your pattern of communicating is to shut down, your going to be shutting down many many times in the wedding planning.  It is going to set pattern that is not going to be healthy or effective for future conversations after you get married.  

Clint:
Oh yeah, sure.  It’s that old thing we’ve talked about before, where you plan and you plan and plan for this incredible day.  And then what?  And then there's the next day.  And the rest of your your marriage.  I agree hundred percent.  I guess that there's that whole glass half-full glass half empty type of deal.  I keep thinking that the bride and groom have gotten to know each other and they’ve fallen in love.  You're right, marriage is hard work and it takes effort and communication.  I think that's where people like you have so much to give in terms of giving couples tools on how to communicate.  I always say that in premarital counseling, really, the biggest thing they teach you is how to fight. 

JP:
To fight effectively. 

Clint:
Okay, I got a story. My process is I give a ton of resources for the wedding ceremony to every single couple.  I give it for free to anybody that wants it.  So I work with this one couple and primarily the bride.  She picks out all the stuff and we work together and it's a beautiful ceremony.  The Vows are kind of long.  The groom does not see the ceremony until the morning of his wedding.  Please understand, I work with the coordinator, whoever is coordinating, I send them the ceremony the week before the wedding so that they know how to run the rehearsal.  And the logistics of it.  I make little notes like we will need a table and whatever it is.  I try to make everybody be in the loop.  The groom  doesn't see it until the morning of his wedding.  I found that out because I got a phone call from the bride who is getting married that day.  The conversation starts like this: Rev. Clint I am so sorry.  I know exactly what you think.  I thought it too.  Uh oh, we’re canceling the wedding.  I said what's up? It turns out that he had just looked at it.  His number one fear, which is number one phobia in America, is public speaking.  He realized how much vows and ring exchange and stuff he was at being asked to say.  Now it’s just a repeat after me.  It’s not that big of a deal.  I mean that's what I think of it.  But his feelings are valid.  He said, “I do.  That's all I'm saying is I do!”  Here’s the scenario.  It was his second wedding, his second marriage.  He'd been through the hoopla and he didn't like it. In terms of the ceremony stuff.  H admitted, “I love you with all my heart.  All I want to do is marry you.”  It was her first wedding.  It was her first marriage.  So he says, “I want you to have your day.  Go ahead do whatever you want and I'll be there and I'll marry you.  That's all I really really want.”  She says, “What are we going to do?”  Well, we have to take care of him because you're worried about him.  So I want to make him as comfortable as possible.  But you did put all the effort into picking out these words that you connect with and they touch your heart.  So how about this.  How about if I say the vows on your behalf?  Are you comfortable with only saying “I do”?  I said that to the bride.  She said, “Oh yeah, sure.”   Let me just say on your behalf so it’s still part of the ceremony.  It's part of your story.  That way all he has to do is say “I do”.  You’re not worried about him.  He's really comfortable. It's happy happy happy all across the board.  that's we did and it turned out great.  Now we go back to that guy that's got his head buried.  I have had couples say to me, “We are really shy.  We don't like being the center of attention.”  I say, don't worry.  Number one, I’m so glad you told me that.  The fact that you had that meeting with that couple and you saw who they are.  Almost like that was the name of the test?  The Briggs Meyer test?  You saw it in person.  You're able to recognize that.  We can do little things to make you feel almost like you're in a little bubble.  You’re not really as concerned about the people who are watching you.  You just turn their bodies a little bit.  Like when they have to face each other they don't really face square onto each other.  They kind of angle a little bit so the still facing the officiant.  Almost like in the movies.  This is old school stuff.  Back back back back in the day of like the 1920s.  Whenever movies started.  They wanted to pull focus to the main character.  They would actually, in order to fuzz out (they can do this digitally now but back then they didn't have a the technology) so they would take some sort of like a Vaseline or something and they would put it on the edges of the lens in order to blur it out.  Have you heard that story?  So it's kinda like that.  Where you make everything else blur.  You bring focus into the couple.  A groom who is self-conscious or shy or whatever that's gold to him.  To have an officiant that can give them little tools by which they they are able to kinda fuzz out the world and really focus on each other.  Oh my gosh.


JP:
What you're really talking about, Clint, I think, is important for again for the couples, those of you who are listening to us chat right now, and it's this: that when you go to interview officiant's what you really are looking for is do you feel safe with this person?  Is this someone you believe, based on your conversation with the officiant, is going to create that bubble for you and your fiancé? Because this plays out on an emotional level.  As beautiful as the words are, the couple are only going to hear some of those words.  Because it's an out of body experience.  That is our job.  Our job is to create a safe place where people are able to, as much as possible, be in the moment and as comfortable as possible, offer those vows to each other.  In whatever way it might be. 


Clint:
Right.  Now, there's the other side of the emotional spectrum here that we take in consideration as well.  Where a couple will want Elvis to marry them.  I talked to a couple, she’s a wedding coordinator and I think he’s a massage therapist.  They decided that they wanted to go away.  Destination wedding.  They went to one of the one of the places in the Caribbean.  Is that right?  I get the Caribbean in the Mediterranean mixed up.  That was my hesitation.  So, it’s the Caribbean.  They hired a guy from North Carolina who does the Johnny Depp Capt. Jack Sparrow imitation.  He performed the ceremony.  Right?  Then there's a guy who runs a big company, a big officiant company here in Southern California.  He began his company with the idea that we’re going to have as much fun as we possibly can.  He comes from standup comedy.  He's done singing telegrams.  I'm a little envious.  It's just not where my business has gone.  He's dressed up as an umpire and gone to Dodger Stadium and performed ceremonies at home plate.  Then about two thirds of the way through he stops and does a seventh-inning stretch and sings Take me out to the Ballgame.  So, there are there are those couples who are looking for that type of an experience.  It's exactly what you said.  It’s the same concern for the happiness of the couple.  To protect them. But, in a way, they need to be protected from the officiant that is just to full of themselves or too serious.  They don't want that experience for their guests.


JP:
That's why it is so vitally important that couples sit down at the beginning and talk about what is their shared vision.  What's going to make them comfortable together.  What is not to make them comfortable individually. 


Clint:
I think the big way to begin that process is to each of them say:  in a perfect world, my dream wedding would be… then they just lay it out.  Because, it could be: I have this idea which is bells and whistles.  I have this idea which is flowers and sweet music.  Then, hopefully, they'll come to us with their visions and be able to find that happy ground.  Last episode we talk about interfaith.  This is another version of that.  Another version of different cultures and background and stuff and how do we bring them together?  I love this podcast.  We do need to wrap this up.  Thank you all once again.  Remember, you can go to our website.  It's WeddingCeremonyPodcast.com.  Send us an email.  It’s right there on the home page.  Send us an email.  Let us know what you want to talk about.  If there's any questions, any insights you have for us to make the podcast absolute the best it can possibly be.  There's also links to our individual websites.  If you're looking for whatever we have to offer you.  It’s our honor to serve you.  Until next time this is Clint on behalf of JP.  See you later.

Clint:
Welcome to the Wedding Ceremony Podcast.  This is episode number four recorded on Tuesday, February 25.  I'm Clint Hufft.  With me, as always, JP Reynolds.  Today,  I think based on what we just got done talking about were going to discuss when two people come together to get married but they’re from completely different backgrounds.  How do we handle that?  People look to us as the officiant to help them construct a ceremony or solve issues.  JP, you just told me a story because of a wedding that you just a weekend.  You said something that I thought was really cool.  That it caught you by surprise.  Tell me a little bit about, let us in on that story.

JP:
Good to be with you again, Clint, as always.  I think it’s good for people to remember that you and I are based in Southern California.  Here in Southern California, this is a very culturally diverse part of the world.  

Clint:
Did you know there's more Spanish speaking people who call Spanish their native language in Los Angeles then there is in any other city in North or South America except for Mexico City?

JP:
Wow.   That I did not know.  

Clint:
Well, it may not be true.  But I heard that. 

JP:
It’s interesting on just the array of cultural traditions regarding the wedding.  So what I find very endearing, for instance for Chinese tradition and it didn't take me by surprise is that for Chinese culturally they will be a little bit more reserved in the display of their emotions.  But, in the ceremony during the procession, when people walk down the aisle, everybody gets around of applause.  When I welcome everybody they give a round of applause.  When I offer some words of good cheer and encouragement to the couple I get a round of applause.  The first time it totally threw me off because I had not be aware of this tradition.  As time goes on, as you know, and I know you have stories, it’s these cultural sensitivities in these cultural traditions that people bring to a wedding ceremony.  You and I need to be very much aware of and help couples integrate into the ceremony.

Clint:
Part of that, I think maybe we talked on last week, where you say to the couple is there anything, what you call reality show drama?  I say is there anybody giving you any grief?  On the more positive side of that question is, when they say they come from different backgrounds, is there anything that is really important to the people in your family, that you want included the ceremony?  Quite honestly there are certain parts of what we do when we go in blind because we’re not familiar with the culture.  

JP:
It’s also interesting because most of the couples who come to you, come to me, there are couples who are not actively engaged in the religion of their parents.  They might have grown up in a particular denomination, a particular faith, tradition, but they now identify more closely as being “spiritual”.  So not only is it a challenge for you and me but oftentimes I ask a couple now is there anything from your culture, from your faith, traditions you’d like to incorporate?  They look at me and smile “I’ll have to ask my mother – my grandmother”.  So even the couple often times is not aware of those traditions.  

Clint:
In fact when somebody comes and says we like to include this particular ritual, I think we need to distinguish the difference between religious upbringing and cultural upbringing.  What I've discovered is that people can say they’re from a particular religion but what they'd want to do during the ceremony is very much regionally based.

JP:
Very much, yes.  My background is Roman Catholic.  Catholics, particularly from Mexico, who have any exposure to Spanish Catholic Church.  They have very particular wedding traditions that you’re not going to find in a Bronx Irish Catholic wedding. 

Clint:
Right.  The Filipinos have specific traditions with the sponsors and all that kind of stuff.  But they all still consider themselves part of the Roman Catholic community. 

JP:
All part of the community.  It’s just these days it’s interesting in the Philippines because the Catholic was the Spanish Catholic missionaries who went to the Philippines.  So Filipinos are very much influenced in the tradition of the Spanish church. 

Clint:
Was it the Spanish church that, because California has that heritage is well, yes?  It was Spanish monks that came in and incorporated Christianity into the settlements.  Is that right or wrong? 
In the settlement of California when the Franciscan monks that came over? 

JP:
Yes.

Clint:
I wonder if there any other Catholic communities that took it upon themselves to travel the world and and do missionary work.

JP:
Oh yeah.  The European countries were very big on missionary work.  Catholic missionaries went where the government went to colonize.  The missionaries followed the armies and the conquerors. 

Clint:
Does that mean, like Vietnam I think was a French colony.  Does that mean the missionaries went in there from France? 

JP:
The Vietnamese Catholics were converted by the French missionaries.

Clint:
When people come together from different traditions or cultures and they say I want to include this particular ritual.  Then I say is that because of somebody in your family?  Why?  It’s all good if you want it’s fine but, why?   Usually there somebody that they want to make happy.  My approach is, alright, go to that person and find out exactly what they think this ritual is supposed to be.  Because we want to do it exactly right from their criteria, so everybody’s happy.

JP:
Exactly.  The great religious traditions of the world share what I call a symbolic vocabulary.  Within Christianity, Judaism and Islam, these images of blessing involve the tying of knots and the draping of the veil.  Light, smell and flowers and incense.  The symbols are pretty much universal.  How they are enacted in the ceremonies becomes particular to the faith tradition.  For instance, this past summer the bride was ethnically Armenian, by religion Greek Orthodox and the groom was Persian Muslim.  Now that’s heavy duty.  It was 250 guests.  To their credit, both families embraced the couple.  There was no reality show drama.  The couple wanted to honor the traditions of their families without being heavy duty religious.  How do you do that?  What we had to sift through was where are some of the signature moments in each of these ceremonies?  Where do they ritualistically overlap? As you know, with the Persian ceremony there is something known as the sofra table.  So we decided to have a very brief segment within the ceremony that was conducted by the groom's cousin, because he speaks Farsi.  In the Greek Orthodox tradition it's the priest who crowns.  The bride and groom have a crown.  The priest crowns them and it’s the symbol of God's blessing for them.   What I do was I invited the mothers to place the crown on the heads of their children.  So it’s always a sense of how do you take an ancient tradition, honor that tradition, but give it a contemporary interpretation?  People were just very moved.  The Greek Orthodox side loved that they had the crowns, so they were happy.  The Persian Muslim side was moved by the sight of mothers symbolically blessing their children.

Clint:
I love that kind of stuff.  Where you incorporate people.  That's one of the challenges that are in the minds of the bride and groom.  We have this person that’s special to us.  This person that we feel obligated to.  That person's kid.  I always say build the ceremony.  Don't worry about anybody else.  Build the ceremony.  Figure out what you want to say to each other.  There's so many ways that we can incorporate people and give them their moment in the sun and let them feel significant.  Too often they'll come to me and say well, we want this person to do a reading.  My criteria for the reading process is: number one, do they really want to do it?  Who is this person?  Are they relevant to you?  But, more important than anything else, are they going to be cool getting up and speaking?  All the statistics say public speaking is the number one phobia.  So make sure they're cool with that.  Make sure.  Because the whole idea is that if the main focus of the groom is that the bride is blissfully happy.  Then we want to make sure that the bride isn’t worried about anyone else.  I'll give you another example: kids.   If it's a child from a previous marriage and now were going to be incorporating them into this new family with a new mom or a new dad, stepdad, whatever, then I always go back to the personality of the kid. You know this kid way better than I do.  We can acknowledge the child in their seats so they don’t feel like they have to stand up in front of everybody.  Or we can bring them up.  Hugs and kisses and maybe they get a gift.  But it's all about the personalities involved and making sure that they all feel really really comfortable within the context of however you want to honor them. 
JP:
Clint, you just said the word I emphasized with a couple and it’s the word, “comfort”.  Comfortableness.  I always say to people: no one, no one should ever have to do anything that makes them uncomfortable.  That really is partly guiding principle.  Tell me what you want.  Tell me what you want included and why you want it included. We can figure out how to seamlessly weave it into the ceremony. 

Clint:
There are some couples that will say, “Well, I’m getting married so they're obligated.  They have to do this it.”   Like if the couple decides to do a destination wedding and it's going to cost everybody a lot of money to go to this wedding.  But they just think, “Well, everybody’s obligated to come to my wedding.  Aren’t they?  They’re supposed to come.  So dig deep.  Let’s go.”  Or, if they do a wedding on a weekday.  Now, if you're planning your budget, obviously you plan on a weekday to get married  you’re going to save a ton of money.  But, taking everybody else into consideration, what they have to do in order to attend your wedding.  If it's on a Saturday or Sunday and they have a Monday to Friday 9-5 that's pretty simple for them.  Even if they have to fly in.  That’s pretty simple.  But, if it's during the week, then they have to take time off from work.  They have the extra expense.  If you have somebody that's you expect to be in your wedding party.  What are their expenses?  They have to rent a tuxedo?  Do they have to pay for the bridesmaids dress?  That whole mentality carries through not only the wedding day and the preparation of the day but the ceremony especially.  Because, as we've said in previous episodes, that little sliver of time which is the wedding ceremony, in the middle of a really big long day - which could end up being, from the time she starts hair and make up to the time they wave goodbye to everybody, ten to 12 hours - but have this little sliver of time.  But the emotional content and the intensity can be so powerful.  All the emotions are high. 

JP:
The ceremony does play out almost entirely on emotional dimension.  That's why all of these symbolic moments in the ceremony, these little touches, rituals that speak to the cultural and religious traditions of couple and their families.  We want to have them speak on an emotional basis.  Sometimes people give me a long explanation for a cultural tradition or religious tradition. Folks, this is not time for a PowerPoint presentation.  Nobody wants a detailed history of whatever it might be.  What it is is, it's that sense of all of these rituals from culture and religion speak to family and friends blessing the couple.  I think our job, and what you and I do is, how do we streamline it and give a contemporary interpretation so that everybody visually and emotionally understands we are blessing this couple. 

Clint:
And our role as officiant is kind of the master ceremonies.  To guide everybody along.  Like you said you brought up a cousin to speak in Farsi and explain the sofra.  We may not be the person that actually says the whatever it is but we guide that process.  To make everybody feel comfortable.  I always say that we are part master of ceremonies when we begin to officiate a wedding ceremony.  As a master of ceremonies, because I’ve done that my whole life, is we want to get from A to Z.  We want to get from  “Hi everybody. Thanks are coming.”  To, “Have a good night.”  In between our job is just to drive the ship.  Make sure everything goes forward and everybody understands what’s happening.  They feel included. 

JP:
Yes.  Absolutely.  I think of myself as the host of that ceremony.  I have host responsibilities.  It’s just what you outlined.

Clint:
Here’s one of my favorite stories of the cultural differences.  This couple, she was Filipino Catholic and he was Persian Muslim.  They got married at this kind of cool hip nightclub in Los Angeles.  They’re in that the room where the dancing takes place.  They have a stage where the band normally stands.  That's where we did the ceremony.  That means they actually had seats around the room.  Not fold up seats.  In my memory they were actually almost like bleachers.  Permanent seats that were around the side of the room.  It was relatively intimate.  It was a small club.  They did something that I thought was really cool.  Because it spoke to his heritage.  We read some stuff from the Bible and we honored her Catholic heritage.  Then we honored some stuff from him.  But here's the the real twist.  They did Vows.  They did readings.  They did rings.  But they didn't say “I do” until the very end of the ceremony.  They played it out like this:  I turned to him and I said you want to marry her?  In the right language.  Do you want to marry her?  He said yes.   Okay, great.  Then I turned to the bride and they told me the how this is gonna play out.  The thing that half the guests didn't know because they were from the bride's family and culture.  So they got caught by surprise.  But his community, they were fired up and ready to go.  So it goes like this.  I turn to her and I say would you like to marry him and she says nothing.  Then his side starts to kinda rumble a little bit.  Like “Uh oh.  Uh oh!  She's not saying anything”.   Again, the couple had prepared me for this.  I look at her and I say a second time do you want to marry him?  And she says nothing.  Then his family and friends just unload on him.  I mean, all in Farsi.  I can’t understand a thing.  They’re laughing and they’re saying, “She doesn’t want you! Oh, My God.  What are you going to do?!  Run!”  They’re just letting it out and laughing and having a great time.  He's just taking it.  He’s gotta take his medicine.  Then I asked her for a third time, do you want to marry him?  She says, “I do”.  And the place erupts and the party starts. That was the end of the ceremony.  Because of the lighting I couldn't really see that deep into the guests face.  But I know that one half of the room was really quiet and probably a little nervous.  Then the celebration starts and it's all good.  

JP:
Right, right.  Now see, for those listening, that is a contemporary interpretation of the Persian tradition of where, I think, the groom goes to the house of the bride on the morning day.  There's this ritual of asking three times.  She, according to the ritual, plays very coy.  Doesn't give him the answer.  This was a very clever way of of giving new meaning to a very ancient tradition. 

Clint:
Yeah it was really neat.  I haven’t experienced it since. There was one couple where he was of Indian heritage from the country India.  I don’t remember where she was from but traditional like a Protestant type of deal.  She wanted to do a unity candle and they came up with this idea, which I thought was really cool.  By the way, in certain cultures you not supposed to wear certain colors.  Did you know that? 

JP:Right.  

Clint:
Everybody’s got to be sensitive to that. In the Hindu tradition the sacred fire is, I hope I pronounce this correctly, it's a AGNI.  It’s a sacred fire.  They decided they would make the unity candle the sacred fire and still do the unity candle.  There’s a part of the Hindu tradition where the bride and groom circle around the sacred fire.  It was awesome.  Where they combine both things and they both lit the unity candle and then did the the Hindu traditions.  It was very cool. 

JP:
You know, Clint, that’s a beautiful example of what I'm saying earlier about how the great religious traditions share a symbolic vocabulary.  How our responsibility is really to take these traditions, honor them, and create a way that gives it a contemporary personalized interpretation.  But that families can look and say, “Ah, yes.  Thank you.”  

Clint:
That's where I think it's really important for wedding professionals to really listen and allow the couple to reveal their ceremony.  Sometimes it happens organically from them.  It’s a discovery process.  I always begin every conversation: tell me what you want,  tell me what you don't want.  Just fill me in on all that.  Half of them get caught by surprise.  “I don’t know.  I don’t know.”  That’s okay. I don't want to put you on the spot.  Every now and then somebody will say,  “I’ll tell you what I don't want.”  They'll give me a kind of a list of things.  It's really fun when people get engaged then they go to their friend’s weddings.  Their radar is out.  They’re just inspecting.  I hate that.  I hate that.  Ooh, I like that.  I hate that.  So they can incorporate or not incorporate that into their own wedding process.  It's really hard for us as officiants to deal with our egos.  Make sure that we allow the couple to express themselves.  We guide them and we protect them.  But that initial conversation, I think it's like 80% of the work . 

JP:
That's very interesting.  I would agree with you on that.  Because certainly there are things I like.  I have to especially, as you say, in that initial conversation, make sure that I know that I keep my preferences to myself.  This is the couple’s ceremony.  It’s not my ceremony.  I want to make sure that people recognize the couple in their ceremony. 

Clint:
Doesn’t that give you more joy?  Because every ceremony we do is different.  Because we allow the couple to be who they are and express themselves.  I always say, listen, your marriage is one-of-a-kind.  Nobody exactly like you has ever married somebody exactly like this other person.  The ceremony should have that same kind of uniqueness to it.  I always say, the officiants have the best in the house.  To feel what's happening between these two people.  And if it really is personal and unique to the two of them, it's the coolest thing for us as officiants.  We’re so lucky.  I tell people, if you ever get a chance to perform a wedding ceremony as an officiant, there's no going back.  You get hooked.  

JP:
It's very true, very true.  In many respects, their wedding ceremony is one of the most intimate moments in their lives.  The exchange of those Vows is one of the most intimate experiences that they will every have. I always consider it a great honor to just stand there and to bear witness.  There's nothing like it.  

Clint:
Well, we’ve reached the end of this episode.  Boy, I tell ya, we’re so lucky. That we get to do what we do and help people the way we help people.  Every time we say the same thing to each other.  Whenever we stop the broadcast we always say, “Oh, my gosh.  There is so much to talk about.” 

JP:
When you say that we’re lucky, and we are, part of how we are lucky, Clint, is, you and I get to work  with some of the most wonderful, generous and creative people anyone will ever find.  Yet within the wedding industry is seeing you and I are very privileged and that we work with people who are at the top of their game.  Floral designers and event planners and musicians and it's like, wow!  We just work with really deep down good, generous people.  

Clint:
Don't you love the experience, when you work with somebody who's kind of a novice, kind of entering the fray for maybe the first or second time.  You can see that they’re a little frantic. There's the panic about the set in.  You are able to say, No no.  It’s all good.  We’re going to be fine.  Don't worry.  It's fine. 

JP:
Yes.  Well, great, Clint.  Onward and upward. 

Clint:
Yet another one in the books.  I want to thank everybody who's been listening.  Remember, you're kind of in control of this.  Because we really want to talk about what's important to you.  So when you go to our website: WeddingCeremonyPodcast.com.  The very first thing you'll see is the button which is “email us”.  Let us know what you want to hear and we’ll address it as quickly as we possibly can.  If you want us to come to your town and and share thoughts and help out a little bit, by all means let us know.  We’re both professional speakers and we both like to help as many people as we possibly can.  So keep that in mind as well.   JP, thank you so much.  Until next time.

JP:
Alright, Clint 

Clint:
​On behalf of JP Reynolds this is Clint we'll see you next time on the Wedding Ceremony Podcast.

Clint:
Hi and welcome to the Wedding Ceremony Podcast.  This is episode number three recorded on Tuesday, February 18.  I'm Clint Hufft along with JP Reynolds.  In the last episode we got into some pretty juicy stuff.  We realize that it would take at least one more episode to cover it correctly.  Because the purpose of this podcast is anything and everything that's going to help people experience a brilliant… What I say is that I want you to have brilliant memories of your wedding ceremony.  JP, you told a story last week and if you’d do me a favor.  Recap the story and then we'll go from there and and offer suggestions to people and how they can head trouble off at the pass. 
JP:
Right, Clint.  I love that the phrase “brilliant memory”. 

Clint:
Thank you.

JP:
Well, this couple will have blindingly bright memories of their wedding because of the groom’s mother. This wedding occurred this year, 2014.  This is fresh.  The couple live out of state.  They live out of California.  The majority of their guests were flying in from out of town.  I actually had not been able to meet with them at any time in person so all of our planning was done via Skype, which was fine.  We were to establish relationship.  I arrive to the venue and I'm excited to meet them in person.  The planner heads me off at the pass, as it were.  Takes me aside and says there’s some things I need to be aware of.  The first of which is that the wedding had almost been canceled the night before the wedding rehearsal.  Because it was at the rehearsal that the groom's mother decided to finally tell them that she did not approve of the wedding.  Did not like the bride.  Did not like the bride’s children. And if the bride’s children were going to be a part of the ceremony, she was going to turn around and go back home.  

Clint:
Just to clarify, did she say she didn't like their personalities or she just didn’t like the idea that the bride had been married and had kids?  

JP:
I don't think it was the children's personalities.  It was the fact that they were not the offspring of her son.  

Clint:
Okay.  So then what? 

JP:
So even with starting announcements, I’m not privy to the details of what went down between the bride and groom.  My impression is that there was a major flareup because the event planner told me that the wedding came very close to being canceled.  Ultimately, what was decided was that the two boys would not process down the aisle.  Would not present to rings, as they were originally going to.  And would not sit in the front row.  They were put in the third row on the bride’s side.  Out of sight of the groom's mother.

Clint:
That is so cold.

JP:
Everyone who's listening, yes.  I don't know the circumstances surrounding this couple.  I only developed a Skype relationship with this couple.  However, from my perspective as someone who teaches communications, there’s a lot of concern, I think, for how this went down and for how it was handled.  We actually talked, Clint, after the last podcast and we were talking about how this mother…  This couple had been dating for three years.  These were people who were close to 40 years old.  So they weren’t just, you know, doe eyed high school sweethearts.  This mother, over the last three years, had to have given indications of her displeasure.  The first thing I want to say is I think sometimes people think when we get married it'll be different.  Or the phrase, well that’s just mom.  Ignore her.  I would gently say, if that's just mom or that's just dad, gently ignoring her or him is not necessarily going to solve whatever problems and issues need to be faced.  

Clint:
I can see if mom is not a part of their regular day-to-day life then “that's just mom, ignore her”, I can see where that would be relatively safe strategy.   But, in this particular instance, my biggest concern is the kids.  Every now and then - I know you’ve been through this 1 million times - somebody will say there’s a ring bearer or there is a flower girl.  I’ll say, how old are they?  How do you want them included?  Especially in the scenario, kids from previous marriage or relationship.  They want to include the children.  To me the personalities of the kids is the number one priority.   Not everybody thinks that way.  But we’re talking about 20 years of therapy of something goes south. 

JP:
Yeah yeah.  Also, I definitely agree with you when you say if the mother or the father is not part of the daily life, they don't live nearby, I should clarify.  The groom's mother lives in the same city as they do and lives very close by to where they live.

Clint:
Just out of curiosity, this doesn’t have a lot to do with the wedding ceremony, but I'm just curious as to how integrated she is in their day-to-day life.  It sounds to me like not very much.  It sounds to me not very much by her choice.  If she has these kind of resentments.

JP:
If she's not integrated into their daily life then for them to have caved in to her demands, especially regarding the children, I can tell you once you cave in to the demands of a passive aggressive personality they will step it up and they will be unrelenting.  

Clint:
Yeah because to me the unspoken guideline of all human behavior is whatever works.  

JP:
Precisely

Clint:
We need to clarify a little bit.  I don’t think people know your background.  You actually have been teaching communications at Loyola Marymount and now you’re at UCLA.  You do a lot with the corporate world.  Leaders come to you on how to better manage their employees.  So this all fits into the same thing and you’ve spoken before wedding professionals at some big conferences on how to deal with difficult brides.  I think this is a really important topic because I see a lot of people to give up the power.  Like you said, if you give into the passive-aggressive that people give up the power and don't really say wait, take three steps back and look at it from a different perspective.  Because if you are in the middle of it,  you really have to backup and kind of put in its proper context before you can really choose the appropriate course of action. Would you agree with that?

JP:
Oh, absolutely.  When there is a parent, a relative, even a friend who is in what ever way presenting a challenge in the couple's relationship, it's really important the couple talk about how they want to manage relationship with that person.  How they want to address the challenges and not simply brush it aside.  There was a couple where the groom’s father was very harsh and demanding man.  He was very harsh and demanding on his future daughter-in-law.  During the wedding process.  Because it was the groom's parents who were putting up much of the money the father wanted to have a say in every step of the process.  The bride eventually just broke down.  Asked to meet with me with her fiancé. She said she couldn't bear the groom's father anymore.  She couldn't bear his criticism and his harshness and the groom was shocked.  The man was genuinely surprised when he said you know I have no idea.  Years ago I learned to ignore him.  Here's a situation where the couple never really sat down before to talk about what we are we going to do with Papa?  The groom had just learn to ignore the the father and he just presumed that his wife, his fiancée, would learn how to ignore the father.  So, at the very least I would say here’s a very practical rule of thumb.  Presume nothing and make sure you talk things. 

Clint:
It takes a brave person to really face their fears.  In a relationship there so many things that we just say I don't care.  My Mom had great advice.  She said way back, before I even was ready to get married, she said marriage is hard work.  You really have to put in the effort in order that you know the day-to-day things.  Here's another thing.  When you're thinking of marrying somebody take a good look at every little thing that they do that bothers you.  Because 10 years, 15 years from now that little thing is gonna be huge.  It's better if you really face it right now and figure it out before you get into the actual marriage.  There's an interesting dynamic which is kind of like in premarital counseling there are people who are afraid to go through the counseling because they are afraid they won't survive the counseling.  Those of us who are way removed from the relationship or whatever they're hoping to get from the relationship or whatever can say well then were doing you a big favor.  But if you are desperately, you know, if you’re codependent, if you're tremendously insecure, or you don’t think anyone is going to love you or you think this person is perfect and da da da, then I think there's a lot of blinders put on people as they approach the wedding day.  Then the social pressure.  And the financial pressure.  All that kind of stuff comes into play.  There are some people who really honestly… i have you ever heard the phrase -  I’ve heard this more than once - even as I was walking up the aisle I knew this wouldn’t work.  But they do it anyway.
I think what we're really talking about is preventive maintenance.  Insurance companies now will reward the people that have policies if they take care of themselves and avoid healthcare caused by just doing regular day-to-day take care of themselves.  It seems to me that this is the same kind of a deal.  I learned this from you.  Please tell the story that I love.  I’ve repeated this story so many times and probably I've repeated it incorrectly.  Tell the story of the mom in during the ceremony and reservations. 

JP:
Okay.  So, couple, mid-30’s, nice sweet people.  Got married here in Los Angeles, in the Valley. An outdoor venue.  Towards the end of the ceremony I’m preparing to wind things up and the mother of the bride stands up, starts to walk towards me.  I knew she was a widow and I thought, oh maybe she wants to do reading and they forgot to tell me.  Or, maybe she thinks that this is the time to thank everybody for coming and doesn't realize it's at the reception.  So I leave my microphone and I walked towards her.  In a voice only I can hear, she says to me these immortal words: she says, “do not pronounce them husband and wife.  I have reservations.”  And I thought, Sweetheart, do you really think I give you my microphone in turn this into Jerry Springer?  So I smiled and I said the only reservations you better have are for dinner.   Left her in the dust.  Went back.  I have never pronounced a couple husband wife as quickly as this couple.  Afterwards, after all the other vendors were patting me on the back, congratulating me, I find the bride.  I give her a hug.  I asked how she is.  She says to me, “I guess I forgot to tell you about my mother.”  God forbid I should have Alzheimer’s.  It may very well be the last words I ever remember.  I guess I forgot to tell you about my mother.  Everybody knew that Mama was wacky.  She was just plain old nuts.  This was a woman who made it very clear all along that she didn't like the guy.  She didn't want them to get married.  The reason being the woman was not big into other people being happy.  She's kind of unhappy when people were happy.  So what better day than a wedding to try to cause something.  

Clint:
Now, here's the key thing that I took away from this story.  I love the story.  When you told me the story the first time, you then said so from that point forward anytime you met with a couple you included… go ahead and say it.

JP:
I ask them, “Is everybody happy for you?”  I can tell you, as you yourself know Clint, if you ask that question to a couple, it is not uncommon for people to look at each other, smile and say, “well, now that you mention it…” and they talk about parent or grandparent or friend or a sibling or something.  I modify the question also now, which would be appropriate most especially for the two of us, is where I ask, “is there any reality show drama?”  

Clint:
That's so funny.  I took from you and the way I phrase it:  is anybody giving any grief?  Anybody just saying stuff to you about it or anything like that?  You and I are both really lucky in that there are a lot of our business is referral based.  So a lot of our business is the couples of already been vetted. By the time they get to us they've already gone through some sort of an inspection process with the coordinator or the venue or whatever before they get our name.  I think a lot of the high-end venues, coordinators or whatever have decided that their happiness is more important than taking that extra job with the person that’s going to drive them crazy.  We’re very fortunate from that standpoint. I think what were tapping into here that is the take away for this episode is: if you go in with your eyes wide open and you realize… Have you ever had somebody say my dad is an alcoholic and I'm afraid how he’s going to behave?  

JP:
As you are speaking I was flashing on the precise kind of story.  

Clint:
The advise that I give is that open and frank conversation right now because usually they'll meet with us months ahead of time.  I'll say don't wait another second.  Have an honest and frank conversation first.  Start with this.  Always say this whenever you need to resolve a conflict or figure out a solution to something that you think is going to be a problem.  Always start with the following phrase: You mean the world to me.  I am so excited that you’re going to watch me get married.  Here's what I'm concerned about.  And you say,  “Obviously, your behavior the past has been this.  On that day I want everybody there to be happy.”  Because I always say: Everyone wants the bride to be happy but the bride wants everyone else to be happy.  It's very okay for the bride to say, “I want everybody in my wedding to be really happy.  If anybody start doing things that makes other people uncomfortable then it's no longer happy wedding for me.”  I always throw it in the other person's court.  Tell me what you think we can do in order to make sure that everything is cool the whole day long.  Always defer to them first and let the other person see if they come up with specific solutions.  If it doesn't really meet the criteria and it's really hard because when you start a conversation more often than not we already have a something that we’re going to demand of that person.  We already have it loaded in our gun and we’re ready to pull the trigger.  We kind of are just waiting, blah blah blah blah blah, now let me tell you what I want you to do.  It’s really hard to really relax and let that person process, offer suggestions.  Maybe they have a somebody that the the equivalent of a … what do you call the driver?

JP:
The designated driver.

Clint:
Yeah.  Somebody like a shadow or something like that.  It’s not unlike when people said anyone have their dog in the wedding ceremony.  I'm serious.  Because there's got to be a plan B.  Okay, you got that dog coming up here.  You told the story of the dog being part of your wedding.  Awesome.  If the dog starts to get a little frisky, plan B is somebody takes that dog far away.  Everybody kind of buys into that.  So here you have a person who is significant enough to where you want them as part of the wedding.  Maybe not included in the the nuts and bolts of the wedding, like a VIP or wedding party.  But somebody who is important enough to where you want them to be at your wedding.  You need to stay ahead of the game.  I really think and you don't want to say that conversation like the stories that you have just shared with us you know the day before.  “Oh, and by the way…”

JP:
You know, Clint, I love what you’re saying.  I love what we’re talking about here.  What you have just described is, when you were talking earlier about preventive medicine, what I say to people is you want to vaccinate yourself against emotional blackmail.  What you're describing is how to vaccinate yourself ahead of time so as to make sure you don't get trapped in the passive-aggressive emotional blackmail reality show drama that somebody might perpetrate on your wedding day.  You also said that it takes courage to have these kind of conversations.  And it does.  If you and your fiancé can have this kind of a conversation together and then with the person that you have to have it with.  If you can learn how to have that kind of a conversation, you are setting the groundwork for a pattern and ritual of healthy effective communication.
Clint:
Absolutely.  It's like we said before.  You can have a wedding day and and then you have the next day.  

JP:
Exactly.

Clint:
That whole thing about today is the first day rest your life type of deal.  So the thing that we’re trying to share his to go in with your eyes wide open.  Take a big deep breath and have those difficult conversations as quickly as you possibly can.  Now, there are some people who thrive on conflict.  I have had some brides say to me, usually when I offer:  okay just take a look at this and really be a focus on yourself and think about what you want to express any wedding day.  The type of things where I'm just trying to guide them to the best place possible.  You can see in their behavior, in their eyes, that they are just invested in the conflict.  Then there's a point where I have to let go and do the best I possibly can on the day of.  If that's what they've chosen to do.  But I like to address it right off the bat.  Quite honestly, if this comes up during the how-do-you-do, where they meet me for the first time and they’re not really sure if I'm to be there officiant.  I can bring this to their attention and offer some suggestions.  Even if they don't hire me I think that I've made a contribution to the world so to speak. 

JP:
I feel the same way.

Clint:
Because someone invested, it’s that whole thing of we only have control over ourselves, in theory.  We can’t really control the behavior of anybody else.  But we can bring things to their attention.  Then  hope for the best.

JP:
Yes, yes.  If you’ll let me, this is a great time for me to plug one of my books.  I have written an e-book that's available on Amazon called, “How to keep the ‘I’ in ‘I do’”  It's communication tips, tricks and techniques for staying sane while planning your wedding.  In that book I talk about exactly what were talking about now.

Clint:
Oh, that's brilliant.  Okay, they can go to Amazon and all they have to do is search your name? 

JP:
Go to the Kindle section of Amazon and JP Reynolds and they’ll find the book, “How to Keep the ‘I’ in ‘I do’”. 

Clint:
As long as they’re there they can find your other books to, right?  Brilliant.  Excellent. We come to the end of this episode.  Once again reaffirming the fact that there is no end the many facets of the wedding ceremony.  Alright, JP.  Thank you very much and we’ll se you next week.  Thank you all for listening.  Remember, if you want to listen to back episodes or send us an email please visit our website it's WeddingCeremonyPodcast.com.  On behalf of JP this is Clint.  Thanks and Bye Bye.

Clint:
Welcome to the wedding ceremony podcast this is episode number two recorded on Tuesday, February 11, 2014.  This is Rev. Clint Hufft with Rev. JP Reynolds talking about anything that has to do with wedding ceremonies.  JP everything good? 

JP:
A morning Clint.  Good talking. 

Clint:
So we were talking before we started recording and there’s so many things in regards to a wedding ceremony that are sensitive.   You hope that people will be a look at each other, the couple, and say what’s in their heart and just kind of solidify the commitments.  But there's so many complexities that go into a wedding ceremony at times.  You mentioned that every now and then will do an interfaith ceremony and some relative will say something very specific about “no you can't have that”.  You know what I’m talking about?

JP:
Right. Absolutely. You know, my experience, my background, is unique in that I began all this as a Catholic priest, Roman Catholic priest.  Resigned many years ago when my theology become more liberal than the church’s policy.  Out of respect for all involved I resigned from ministry and now function as a nondenominational officiant like yourself.   It does interest me because I get folks who  will indicate that they were raised Catholic, Episcopalian, Lutheran, Methodist, and overtime, especially by the time they hit college, started to fade away from their faith, the denomination of their family.  Weddings, I find, revive that old-time religion as it were.  It pushes buttons.  For instance, I had a bride who was raised Catholic.  No longer practiced, did not want a Catholic wedding.  A couple months after she hired me she was all upset because her father was threatening to boycott the wedding. because she's not having a Catholic wedding.  Now the kicker is her father had been married three times.  Her father in the eyes of the Catholic Church only had one wedding.  He divorces the bride's mother, married two more times and now is upset the bride is not getting married in the church.  I’m thinking, wow.  As you know, weddings, people started to have real wacka doo thinking. 

Clint:
Yeah people get really kinda crazy.  It's like a heightened reality and not everybody thinks clearly.  and that concern about what somebody else will think but also I think it's unfair where is somebody kinda says I'm not coming if you don't do this or wear this or whatever the case may be.  There’s this loss of of priorities.   Most of us would think, how the world could be that important that you wouldn't go to your daughter's wedding?  Because she's not doing what you want her to do.   I don't know, it's kind of weird. 

JP:
I refer to that as emotional blackmail.

Clint:
Yeah, absolutely. 

JP:
Emotional blackmail.  I have seen it I recently.   Just last month I arrived at the wedding, the event planner took me aside and said there’s a few things you need to understand.  This wedding was almost called off the night before.  The groom's mother decided that after their three years of dating she decided, at the rehearsal, she would inform the bride that she didn't like her, didn’t approve of the wedding and didn’t want the bride’s children to participate in the ceremony.  And if they did, she was going to turn around and fly back home. 

Clint:
At the rehearsal she said that?

JP:
At the rehearsal.  The night before the wedding. The bride and groom lived outside of California.  So a lot of people flying in.  Now I'm thinking you could not have said this at the airport before you flew down here? 
Clint:
That's a three-year window, JP.  It's a three-year window she could have said this.  This is the mother of the groom?

JP:
This is the mother of the groom.  It wasn’t because of religion.  It was because the bride had been previously married and had two children.  So she was spoiled. 

Clint:
Oh man.  That's just like the worst word.  So now, in my head, this is where the groom has to step up.  That's just my thinking. 

JP:
Both the bride and groom capitulated.  They gave into the emotional blackmail.  The children were not allowed to walk in the procession.  They did not sit in the front row.  They did not present the rings.  And I looked out onto the lawn and I looked at 199 smiling faces.  There, in the front row, was the one face that was not smiling.

Clint:
Whose face was that?

JP:
The mother of the groom.

Clint:
You’d have thought the kids would've been, you know..  Still, with all of that, she still was Miss Grumpy Face.

JP:
To call her Miss Grumpy Face is whimsically polite.  I went up to the photographer and I said to him I presume you are going to Photoshop out this woman from every photo.  Over my time I have encountered this where, most especially parents, will offer emotional black mail.
Clint:
Now I understand if the parent is paying for everything.  You have all this money or somebody has all this money invested.  Then there's this social pressure…  I always tell every groom, because I think they don’t always get this, how much pressure a bride feels.  It’s peer pressure from a certain standpoint.  She's the headliner.  Everybody’s coming to her wedding.  Yeah, okay, she's marrying this guy but it has a structure to where she feels all this pressure to do everything “right”.  So the process of saying well okay I’m gonna have this big wedding and is can be beautiful and it has a bunch of money involved in and the person with the wallet is about to yank out you know back out and not pay for anything or whatever the case may be.  Then I can understand where - and I have said this to couples - listen, you have to focus. We mentioned this in last episode.  You have to focus on what's really important.  What you're feeling between the two of you.  Then, figure what's important and what isn’t important. If it’s really important to whoever's paying the money that it be in this venue and they invited 150 of their friends to this event.  You just happen to be kind of like a reason why we all get together.  And you don’t care then go ahead and do your wedding and and look at each other and have great photos.  If you don't care.  But there are sometimes with a couple start throwing around emotional blackmail.  I've seen the other side of the coin where the parents or somebody really wants to be involved.  That's where the bridezilla mentality comes in.  It’s me me me me me.

JP:
right right right 

Clint:
You and I are pretty lucky in that the type of weddings that we do a lot of this stuff gets filtered out before it comes to us do you find that true 
JP:
Very much so, very much so.  There’s so many good things you just said there.  I wanted to point out, and I've written about this, that a gift is only a gift if there are no strings attached.  So I understand about who has the purse strings.  Personally it does rankle me when I hear people say my parents are paying for this.  And they said that because they're paying for it they now get the right for XYZ.  Well, what the parents are doing is not really giving you a gift.  What they are doing is they are a corporate sponsor of your wedding.  As such they have corporate sponsorship perks.  A friend of mine who was a single mother with her only child, her daughter got married she gave her X amount of money.  She said, “Danielle, I love you.  Here's the money.  Do what you want with it.  The only thing I ask is that you play YMCA at some point during the reception because it’s my favorite song.”

Clint:
Oh my gosh. I like that mom already. 

JP:
I was in awe.  I love Becky, I’m a little biased.  A very dear friend.  But the fact that it was like she said,  “you know, I had my wedding.  It didn't work out quite the way I wanted it to, but I love Danielle.  This is her day.  I want YMCA.”  There’s a great generosity of spirit there. 

Clint:
I agree.  What kind of advice do you offer when you find a couple that is facing emotional blackmail?  I remember sitting down to a meeting and the mother of the bride had flown all the way from the East Coast.  The bride was kind of what you've already described.  I always figure by the time they get to the point where they really want to get married, they've had a lot of discussions.  They've had discussions about everything that is important to them.  At least you hope.  Especially what they believe in, what they don't believe in, and if they want to have kids.  They've had a discussion about that.  You just kind of hope that a lot of them have.  Even if they haven't gone through formal premarital counseling, they've had discussions about who they are and what they believe in.  So this bride and her fiancé felt spiritual but religion was not their thing.  But the mom was very much into a structured religious environment or culture, if you will.  My process is I give every couple a huge collection of resources.  I let them pick and choose and find what speaks to them.  When I sat down the bride had what I call the Ceremony Choices.  She had that out and she said, “Mom, just whatever you want.  You want more prayers?  Doing more Scripture?  Just tell me what you want.”  There was this cat and mouse game going on in front of me.  Which I thought was interesting.  That the bride would take that approach.  To say, even though I don't believe in all of this and this doesn't feel like who we are as a couple, I’ll do it just so that I get a smile from you, Mom.  That conversation was fascinating.  Because the mom looked at me, thinking that because of my title that I would back her up 100%.  Aren’t you clergy?  Of course you think exactly the way I do.  I said to her, “I have a different approach, because everybody's spirituality is so unique to themselves.  How we connect with the Divine or not.  What really is most important to me is that the two of them are extremely happy and they say what's in their hearts during this pivotal moment in their life.  However much or little of that kind of religious context is in the liturgy is completely up to them.”  And you I could tell her eyes it was kinda like “your pulling the rug out from under me, Mr. Preacher Man.”   She actually looked at me and said,  “I feel sorry for you that you don't have a true connection to Jesus Christ our Lord.”  Then she got up and went to the bathroom.  The bride looks at me and she says, “I am so sorry.”  She was mortified.  I said listen I've been through this before.  You don't have to worry about a thing.  I understand completely where she's coming from.  I understandably completely where you're coming from.  I hope you understand what my priorities are.  I know that we can find a happy medium and I know it's going to be beautiful.  So don't worry about this kind of little petty stuff.  It's not that big of a deal.  She hasn't hurt my feelings.  I know who I am.  I know what my faith is.  So don’t worry about that.  But it was it was quite a powerful moment.  I felt really bad for the bride.  She was mortified.  Then again, it’s not like she just met her mom.  She requested this meeting with me in hopes that somehow something would be communicated and smoothed over.  I guess sometimes you just have to lay it on the table and and then go from there.  You’re a communications expert.  I'm sure that you dealt with this stuff many times. 

JP:
Oh, yeah, yeah, I saw the weak side of 

Clint:
That was such a big sigh.

JP:
Such a big sigh.  Actually, Clint, this is a great topic for a future podcast.  Because we’re coming quickly to the end of this podcast. There is so much here.  Briefly though I would say this.  Yes.  Going back to what you said just a little earlier.  We hope that couples, during their time together, have the kind of conversations that need to be had.  My experience is that, yes, I have met some couples who have developed great conversational skills.  However, there is all whole spectrum of couples who have learned to skillfully avoid having difficult conversations. 

Clint:
You're right.  Conflict avoidance. Yeah, you're absolutely right. 

JP:
And over time, and you know this being the married, you and your wife, over time, when you are in a significant relationship you develop patterns, rituals, dance steps.  For how you communicate. How you share emotions.  For how you deal with the difficult aspects of the relationship, of the conversation.  When the couple now enters into the wild and wacky world of wedding planning those patterns, dance steps and rituals are put to the test.  The strong ones will see you through.  Wherever there is a weakness in those patters, it is going to cause pain and confusion.  In terms of dealing with parents, it is such hot button.  I’ve dealt with people where - I was just thinking of a couple where the groom's father was a very demanding man.  Interestingly enough, in terms of the wedding, had a very big say in how the wedding was going to unfold.  He was very demanding with the bride.  Eventually she called and asked to see me.  In tears she said she couldn't take it any longer.  She could not take this man's demands.  The groom sat there and he clearly was horrified and concerned for his bride.  And he said I had no idea.  And she said, “How could you not have any idea?”  And he said, “Growing up, my brother and I just learned to ignore him.”  She said, “Well, I can’t!”  Every family has its own patterns, dance steps, rituals.  A lot of times part of the conflict that stands between a bride and groom is one presumes that the other understands what's going on.   I will stop here.  I could go on and on. … It's just a fascinating thing.

Clint:
You're absolutely right.  We should continue this maybe next week at our next podcast will talk more about the stresses that are put on by people outside the couple.  I know you have some of my favorite stories of all time.  I love them.  But it is so powerful - I mean we can joke about it because we’re outside the pain - we can empathize to a certain degree.  You know what it is ?  It's that feeling of weakness, of helplessness, that I think some people go through because they’re not equipped with the tools.  They really feel helpless.  So I think that maybe we can look forward to offering solutions suggestions on how to deal with these kind of sensitive issues.  But to round out this episode as we bring it to a close, I always suggest that the bride and groom pull back into the two of them.  Really begin to solidify exactly who they are.  Then start thinking about what this day is in terms of the full spectrum of their marriage.  You plan this big day.  And you plan and you plan.  Then you have the day.  Then, there's the next day.  And it goes on.  That kind of hunkering down and circling the wagons and really reconnecting with the person that you're going to marry.  Start with that.  Because when everybody else goes away and the wedding is all done and people get their cars and drive away,  then the couple goes home.  I think that we can get into a little bit more.  Especially with your expertise.  All of this area and help a lot of people.  Does that sound like a good deal?

JP:
I say Amen. Absolutely, Clint.  I look forward to it.

Clint:
​All right.  That wraps up this episode.  Remember, you can always find more information on our website.  It's Weddingceremonypodcast.com.  Old episodes are there.  We archived those.  You can send us an email, if you'd like.  All of that and the show notes will be placed on the website.  We thank you all very much and will see you next time on the Wedding Ceremony Podcast.

Clint:
This is the wedding ceremony podcast, episode number one, recorded on Tuesday, February 4, 2014. My name is Rev. Clint Hufft and with me is JP Reynolds, star of the survivor wedding. JP everything good? 

JP:
Everything is good, Clint. Excited to be a part of this. 

Clint:
I am, too. I I don't see anything like this out there.  We discussed this at length and what I really like is the idea that our perspective is both biased and unbiased in the fact that that we deal with the section of the wedding industry that I've said for years the doesn't exist within the business.  But for the people that are actually experiencing this life-changing moment it's kind of the most important thing of the wedding day. 

JP:
You know it really is.  My thought is that you can have a great party with a lousy ceremony.  You have a great ceremony, it really propels your guests and your family the party and people realize and understand what it is they're celebrating.  

Clint:
So glad to hear you say that.  There been times where I said to couples, and actually to other professionals as well - and this is where I admit I'm biased - but if if a couple decides to marry each other, I always think that if they then immediately, before they do anything else, because you know all the pressure of: we have to find a place!  I’ve got to get a dress!  If they immediately decide what they want to say to each other in terms of vows and commitments; how do I want to express my heart?  Why I want to do this with you? If they figure out that language first, the very core of the ceremony, then expand out, all of a sudden all the other decisions they want to make in regards to the entire day become a lot easier.  Because they've started with the essence of who they are, not only as a couple but as individuals.  I always say that's the most important part of the ceremony.  Because, number one, that's who we fell in love with.  Number two, that's who you're offering: yourself. And all the little idiosyncrasies, all the little things that they've discussed over the years.  Falling in love and figuring out if they have a future.  All that comes into play when they really commit to each other.  Does that make sense? 

JP:
Right, you know it does, Clint.  And I think my experience in working with couples is that oftentimes people think that if they're not going to get married in a church or temple or synagogue, not sure what they can have.  I think people associate weddings ceremonies strictly with a religious setting and so people come to me and they’ll say, “We don't know what to do. We don't know what we can have. We don't know what's appropriate.”  What I do, and I know what you do, is show people that you can have a ceremony that is warm, gracious and inviting. That honors the, I can say, the sacredness of what you're doing without being religious or denominational.  But my hunch is that people don’t first focus on the ceremony because it's a bit overwhelming.

Clint:
Well, when you say overwhelming I think are you talking about the entire wedding process.

JP:
Certainly, the entire process. But I think the idea of what to do with the ceremony, since we're not getting married in the church, that's what makes it overwhelming.  It's the sense of when and where do I go?  How I do this?  Who do I get?  So that because it’s so daunting, people decided to put it to the side and focus on what I can do.  We just pick out the linens, the venue. Then, as I'm sure with yourself, oftentimes I’ll get couples just a few months out.  It's like we have everything done but we haven't figured out the ceremony.

Clint:
Right. There been many times where I feel like I'm the last person they think of. 

JP:
Absolutely. 

Clint:
They go through all the angst of getting their date and all the other little stuff in between.  Then, all of a sudden, at some point, they look at each other and say, “Wait a minute.  Who's going to marry us?”  In fact I have a feeling when I did the Bachelorette Wedding -  they just had their 10th anniversary - I have a feeling that in the boardroom, amongst all the producers, that was the conversation. Talking this huge television event deal. The site and how they had to transform it.  At some point we can share stories about what actually happens behind the scenes when they get ready for a television wedding.  But it just seems to me that at some point somebody said, wait a minute, who’s going to marry them?  because they aren't affiliated with a specific church or anything like that or or clergy or anybody that would come out and perform the ceremony.  So it was up to the production team to offer them choices.  That's what I was to begin with of course.  How were you found for the Survivor?

JP:
Thank you for the intro regarding the Survivor.  I officiated the wedding for Boston Rob and Amber who just recently announced that they're going to later this year have a fourth child. 

Clint:
Oh my gosh! 

JP:
You said in Hollywood it's all about who you know.   So I had the honor of officiating the wedding of one of the producers of the CBS special for their wedding.  So when they were looking for an officiant the producer immediately thought of me. 

Clint:
We’ve never shared the story before.  That’s exactly what happened with me.  I married the producer and there you go.

JP:
Welcome to Hollywood. It is is an interesting conversation because again, much like yourself, the couples who come to me - I would say 40 maybe 50% of the couples who come to me - want no mention of God. The people who were raised in some religious tradition and have now on just faded away from from whatever their their religious roots were.  And because they want a ceremony that is authentic they they don't want to be in a religious setting.  They don't want to have religious overtones.  When first I meet with a couple, the first question I ask them is is there anything you know you do want, anything you know you don't want in ceremony?  Anything that you’ve seen that you thought was lovely?

Clint:
I do exactly the same thing.  So neat to hear you say that. 

JP:
The number one answer is: 1. we don't want anything long and then,  2. we don't want any mention of God.  If they’re not religiously affiliated.  Number three is they can look at each other in the same way you know we really had a chance to talk about this. I'm not sure and oftentimes then what can we do? Again and again people are so influenced by what they see on TV.  By movies with weddings.  It's that sense of that has to be a certain way.  What you and I do is remind people that we can create a ceremony that is not cookie-cutter. 

Clint:
Although there are there are couples that…  Two things that you touched on.  The first thing is  why somebody wouldn't want anything that has to do with religion or God.  I think it's because they both may be deeply spiritual or raised in a particular religious tradition but because it's not the same they're afraid of conflicts within the families. So they would rather just not go there at all.  They may both be deeply religious but it's just not gonna work for them, you know, I mean in terms of “can we please have a happy day? Please?” Sometimes you run into situations where people have their own agenda and it has nothing to do with the bride and groom.  So I totally get that.  Every now that I’ll say  you can add like a flavor of your heritage or something that won't speak to anything religious and it's all good.  The thing that comes to mind is for people who come from a Jewish heritage and stepping on the glass.  There's nothing that's going to get in the way in terms of liturgy. So that's kind of a happy medium.  Whenever I use when one person within the couple is is Jewish.  But I I like the idea that nowadays people are looking from so many different places.  Because they feel a little bit more freedom.  If they come to us, were both nondenominational officiants in Southern California, and if they come to us that means they don't belong to a church or a temple.  Where it's just a given that whoever is their clergy is gonna perform the ceremony.  Which means then you play their ballgame.  I have a great guy that lives a few houses down for me and he's a Rabbi.  Not at a temple.  He heads up the Jewish studies at school.  But it people ask him to perform the ceremony.  We have conversations and he's amazed at how flexible I am.  I tell people nondenominational really means everything.  But it makes sense if they come to you they already understand who you are.  There's a structure and you're going to do things within the liturgy of the ceremony that has been done forever within the customs and heritage of the Jewish traditions.  They just know that you play your ballgame.  For him the food has to be Kosher.  But if they come to us there really is kind of a blank canvas.  I agree they don't know.  Because they’ve never had that conversation.  We've done this a 100 million times.  They're going into this thing - but they also carry the emotional burden of everything that’s important to them.  That just adds to the “I can't see the forest for the trees” type of a scenario. 

JP:
Right.  Right. 

Clint:
That's one of the joys that we carry in what we do in that we have this climactic moment which is the ceremony and the kiss and we've had that self-satisfaction of guiding this couple to a moment that hopefully they'll remember forever.  As being like one of the best moments in their entire life.  But it takes a certain skill set, wouldn’t you agree, that you really have to understand what it is on so many different levels. 

JP:
You know a ceremony is very interesting form of public presenting.  Because as an officiant you're playing to two different audiences.  Because your words are, yes, addressed to the couple but you have all of these people sitting behind the couple who are something more than just spectators.  I think what the officiant has to do is address both the couple and their family and friends.  The real trick is to, in gentle ways, bring family and friends into the ceremony.  So as to remind them why they're there.  And they’re there and not just for the Crate and Barrel gifts (which are very nice) or Pottery Barn, but they are there because this couple wanted them to bear witness as they said their vows. 

Clint:
Yes and no. You cannot guarantee, considering who controls the guest list, there's not a guarantee that the bride and groom is going to be emotionally connected to every single guest that's been invited.  Can I tell you a story?  

JP:
Of course.

Clint:
I’m having a meeting with a couple.  I don't know where he was from originally, some other country, and he came to America.  The typical story of an immigrant comes here and becomes incredibly successful.  He and his fiancée were both real estate agents and they specialized in really high end homes.  Mansion type, fancy-schmancy type of deal.  Out here in Southern California there are different pockets of areas that are in big-ticket items.  So they had a house and they knew they wanted to get married and they needed to sell the house.  They looked at each other and said how about if we kill two birds with one stone.  We want to get married anyway.  I want to show the house off.  Let's invite every single person we know and have the wedding at the house.  I said okay.  How big is your guest list?  They said about 350.  You and I both officiated ceremonies where within certain cultures they invite the whole village.  You can have everybody up to their weddings.  I've heard stories of 500 600 people at a wedding but in this particular case he looked at me and he said “Now, having said that, I'll be honest with you.  I would say at least three quarters of the people that are coming I couldn't care less about.  We just want to show off the house.  It's worth it for us to  invest in the wedding.”  I said okay, well, if that didn't exist it was just the two of you what would you do?  He said “I would take her to the beach because we love the beach and that's one of the things we have in common, and I would look at her and into her eyes and I would tell her how much I love her and how much I have to be with her for the rest of my life.”  I said that's what I want.  That's what I want.  I want you to imagine that happening between the two of you and were going to put that in the ceremony.  Because the reality is those people are just lucky they got invited on so many levels.  While you may have an ambivalence towards most of them socially, emotionally let's not forget that this moment is really between the two of you.  And here's the beauty of it.  A wonderful byproduct of you focusing on the two of you and really saying what's honestly in your heart with integrity and really having a true moment.  They can't help but get sucked in even if they don't know you.  To see this moment that quite honestly is primal you know what I mean? 

JP:
Yes. 

Clint:
We want to be in love.  We want to love somebody.  And they read books and they see movies and they listen to songs.  It's all about falling in love.  Hopefully finding your mate la la la la la.  So here they see the two of you speaking honestly from your hearts to each other and you've accomplished something that you didn't really intend.  Number one, They feel connected to a truly human moment.  Number two, they’re really happy and it just happens that they’re now associate that happy feeling with the environment which is the house that you want to sell.  So I said you really want to focus on what's happening to the two of you and I guarantee you that is what is gonna make this really special for the two of you after the house is gone.  You couldn't care less about it it's all about your wedding and your moment.  I know that what you just described for Rob and Amber's wedding is you focus on the two of them no matter what's happening with the television production.   I was able to think were the reasons that that Trista and Ryan connected with me and chose me to be their officiant is because that's my process.  No matter what else is going on.  You guys build the ceremony with my guidance and it becomes honest between the two of them.  I was really happy that at the 10 year anniversary ABC show the recommitment of their vows which they did really intimate back in Colorado.  Ryan used the personal vows he had written to her in the original ceremony 10 years ago.  He said it's as true today as it was then.  From our perspective - I always tell people the officiant has the best seat in the house - from our perspective there is nothing better than a couple that truly connects to each other and if we give them the vehicle by which they can do that - and in future episodes of our podcast we’ll talk about everything that's connected to the ceremony in terms of the people, not only that the wedding party and the professional wedding vendors and and the families- we’ll talk about logistics in and what makes it good and what got the way and every thing possible in order to make sure that connection between the bride and the - well nowadays between the two people getting married - is so strong and nothing breaks it.  I'm really looking forward to that process as well. 

JP:
Absolutely Clint.  I’d just  quickly ask did the house sell?  At the asking price? 

Clint:
You know I never followed up on that.  I know, I know, it's so funny and thought of that until you asked me that question. 

JP:
That's the bottom line there. 

Clint:
Well it was the true bottom line but it wasn't my priority so I guess I never even give it a second thought. 

JP:
I would say though, and we are running at the time now, that certainly is a great story that you just told. The real estate story is in some respects the exception to the rule I think it's interesting to in some respects contrast that with Trista and Ryan's wedding along with Rob and Amber's wedding because when I was brought on board for Rob and Amber's wedding the producers said to me this is a wedding first and a TV special second. 

Clint:
No greater words could've been said to you. That's awesome. 

JP:
Another way of putting that for someone who’s wedding is not being broadcast on TV is that the focus is on creating magic and not on the perfection of it.  I think if people focus on the magic of the day, on the magic of the ceremony, rather than obsessing about perfection, they're going to bring their wedding dream to life.  And so there you have it.

Clint:
I agree 100% and, as we wrap up, that's gonna be kinda like the guiding light through all of the episodes of this podcast.  The magic of the ceremony.  How to create it and how to keep it intact and how to be able to tap into it every time you think about your wedding ceremony.  We’ll get into all of those aspects later.  The beauty of this is that there really is no end to the different facets of the wedding ceremony that we’ll be discussing because there's a constant evolution. We find new venues that have their own idiosyncrasies and we find new products that help couples communicate to each other in terms of what they're creating.  We have wedding professionals that will at some point be guests on the podcast.  I’m very excited.  We’re going to help a lot of people plus the every time you and I get together we does make ourselves happier.

JP:
Absolutely, Clint. Wonderful, and very very excited.

Clint:
All right, JP.  We’ll bid ado to everybody and look forward to our next episode.  Take care.