Hey everybody, welcome to the wedding ceremony podcast. We talk about anything and everything that has to do with wedding ceremonies. This is episode number 276. recorded on Tuesday, June the 30th, the last day of June 2020. My name is Clint hufft. And with me usually is JP Reynolds, but if you've been listening fair listener, then you know that JP is taking the month of June off and with me is once again our very special guest, Joel Curtis jaw
Oh, Joel's website is ReverendJoel.com. And I know what I want to talk about. And then my is Reverendclint.com or ClintHufft.com for all the things that I do. You know, I do believe there are silver linings to every cloud. First of all, does that concept. Is that plausible? What do you think?
Joel Curtis 0:56
It is plausible? Sometimes it doesn't feel that way. But yes, if you look deep enough.
Clint 3:43
So I was thinking about the whole idea of, of being safe, considering, you know, the, the climate of the pandemic and all that kind of stuff. But yet, but get keeping the intimacy of the ceremony. Now, there are some officiants who are doing ceremonies and they they just all caution to the wind, and they just, you know, go about as if nothing was going on, then there are the other officiants who are in the completely opposite ends of the spectrum. And they're very, very, very cautious. They have to wear a mask, they got to wear gloves, they got to you know what I mean? And and they do the ceremony. I think, while I'm presenting this to you, I it occurs to me that it all depends on the client, on the couple that's getting married and what they want from a certain standpoint, but then the person that's very strict about the protocol, the safety protocols, will not do a ceremony unless the couple says is willing to To accept the safety protocols What do you think about all that?
Joel Curtis 5:04
I'm ambivalent I feel as you well know I'm like whatever the bride and groom want I'm a real stickler for whatever you want. I've told you before I tell them I will whatever you want I'll fight to the death your right to have it.
However, we all want to be safe and it's so it makes it difficult. It makes it difficult I do think that you can do the ceremony and still be you know far enough away from the bride and groom where you're not really putting yourself at harm especially they're facing each other like talking to each other. So anything you know, being expelled from their mouth for lack of a better term goes towards each other and not told you
Clint 5:48
I think about how to myself in the hot air that comes out of my own mouth all the time. Oh, that's what my dad used to say if somebody talked a lot. You're full of hot air.
Joel Curtis 5:59
Oh yeah. I've been accused a few times.
Clint
That phrase specifically?
Joel
Yes. Full of hot air. Are you a good fellow?
Clint 6:11
I think that's generational. I'm not sure that Gen Z would understand what we were talking about. No. The other phrase that my dad was oh, this is gross. Wow, this came out. I mean, it's been decades. He said, if he didn't think you were talking sense. He would say you're drinking your own bathwater. Now, I don't know the origination of that phrase, but that's disgusting.
Joel Curtis 6:39
Yeah, especially if you add that with don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Clint 6:43
Well, maybe that was origination of I don't know. Anyway, they. Well, okay. So we're talking about a scenario That's very interesting. And in current climate, it looks like Los Angeles County. There's been like a resurgence of positive cases. Since So the mayor has clamped down again, I haven't heard about a restriction of the number of people that can gather at one point. But I know they they're closing the bars again. And I just think that that there's got to be, there's got to be a way for all of this to coexist. So that couples, my primary objective is brilliant memories for the couple. That's, that drives everything that I do you know what I mean? Yes. So I have a feeling that maybe some of them take it as an adventure. Like, you know, those people that would like to get married jumping out of a plane or they want to get married, and it wasn't funny that the the ring bear, you know, ran away with the rings or something like that. And they'll think, you know, this is gonna make our ceremony memorable. So maybe if they have the right attitude, they've decided to go ahead with their wedding, they're going to accept whatever the parameters are. I mean, that's sounds like a pretty strong possibility. Does that make sense?
Joel Curtis 8:01
Yes. And I can see the ceremony going off with the social distancing and everything. I just see it being a little more difficult with the reception.
Clint 8:11
Oh, yeah, that makes sense.
Joel Curtis 8:15
And although I did see, how many people you're going to invite, and how many people, you know, and how big is the space? So if you say, well, we'll pare it down from 150 to 75. Well, can you still spread 75 people out at that amount of distance? You know? Well, I think they might be crammed in, right,
Clint 8:35
That's down the road. I mean, even if the limit is 50 people, let's just pretend that it is. Okay. I thought, one of the amazing things about the world that we live in is that everything is online, all the video is online. And if somebody wants to, you know, everything is just everything is there, the video, and I saw a backyard reception, where they were playing like the first dance and the wedding party, but they were all spread out. There was a couple over here and there's a couple of Over there, there's a couple over there. And they were and they were dancing. Right. And, and so, I guess all of that has to be taken into consideration there, that camaraderie, I think where most people are feeling the most anxiety is the loss of human physical connection, you know, hugs and bumping up against somebody that you like, and, you know, all of that kind of stuff. I know, no, one thing ever was a better way to say that. But it could be that this is gonna open up maybe some more adventurous content of the ceremony, where people are going to say, Well, if we have to do this, then we're going to add that.
Joel Curtis 9:49
Where there's a will there's a way or when there's a will there's a way? There are people much smarter than me who will come up with solutions.
Well, Oh, I like this. And yeah, what a great idea. And boom, things move forward.
Clint 10:09
Throughout history, there have been a lot of examples of amazing companies that have started during economic depressions. I mean, you know, what I heard is the chocolate chip cookie was invented during the Depression of the 30s. I don't know anymore about the story. But there's a bunch of businesses that are very successful that started during the economic recession of 2008. And so it'll be fascinating to see what comes out of this. The other thing is that the minute that the quarantine and the pandemic and the shutdown all took effect, and we were able to really wrap our minds around how this is going to affect the event industry. Like it's over for a while. The fact that there was I had this huge light at the end of the tunnel. I didn't know how long the tunnel was going to be, but I knew that if it's a medical problem, we, somebody really smart scientists, the medical community, they have solved these issues before. And they also know, like what Warren Buffett said that he believes in the American economy, they've survived so many different things, and they always come back. And so he's not worried about the American economy. The issue is just how long is it gonna last? And sometimes it's difficult for people to look that long,
Joel Curtis 11:27
Especially when it's never happened before. Well, I mean, it's happened before, but not in our lifetime. You know, I don't recall 1918 1919.
Clint 11:37
Oh, you weren't there? Oh,
Joel Curtis 11:39
no, let me tell you I was there. I just don't recall.
Clint 11:43
That reminds me of a ceremony that I did. When the couple did personal vows. And I think that the groom was some sort of a scientist, Professor, whatever. I'm not sure exactly. But he said something in the personal vows that I thought was awesome. And he says, We are Both cosmic dust that has been around since the beginning of time, and somehow are your cosmic dust and my cosmic dust that is us found each other. And I thought, wow, that's on the macro. It was just so beautiful. It's interesting how you can turn quantum physics into romantic jargon. Your cosmic dust and my cosmic dust fell in love. That's, that was awesome.
I did a ceremony where the two of them were both writers. I think they've done okay. There's a lot of different types of writers. And so this difference between writing a technical manual as opposed to creative endeavors, and so I think they both wrote for television or movies or novels or something along those lines, something where there was really like a creative process. And so they came up with the idea that they were going to do personal vows. But they wrote for the other person, as if they were talking about themselves. So they wrote each other's personal vows. And it was brilliant. It was amazing.
Joel Curtis 13:14
Wow. Just the trust level alone right there.
Clint 13:28
Well, it was kind of tit for tat type of deal. Yeah, they were both in. Yeah. And, it was wonderful. And there was laughter and there was tears and, and to be able to say something like
I'm speaking somebody else's words, but they're coming from me. I know how lucky you feel to have met me.
Joel Curtis 13:53
Now, that's funny. You get that and I get the comedy writer who says, Hey, Joel, can you punch up the ceremony Little bit
Clint 14:03
thought of being with a with a rim shot.
Joel Curtis 14:06
And I actually did. I actually wrote something based on the first time that they saw each other and he loved it. He absolutely loved it. And even her vows were, were poignant and sweet. But funny.
Clint 14:21
Do you remember what you said about him? How did you punch it up?
Joel Curtis 14:24
The first time that she saw him he was in a scuba outfit in the garbage can in a bar.
Clint 14:36
Wait, no, no, you got to stop right there. Wait a minute. The first time she saw him, he was in a scuba outfit. In a trash can. Inside a bar?
Joel Curtis 14:48
Yes. I believe he was being hazed or pranked or whatever it was. And that's the first time she saw that. And then I found a quote from like, Wadsworth. There's something about love at first sight. I think I put a little twist on it, but it's been it's been a little while now but yeah. And he loved it. By the way. It was a great ceremony.
Clint 15:19
I would think so. I mean, if you had that in it, I would think so. I A reminds me of Christopher Shelley. He's an officiant out in the New York area somewhere out there. And he's written a book, best wedding ceremony ever, I think is the name of that book. And he was a guest on the podcast and he's emailed us and we've communicated a number of times. He comes from a theatrical background, and I don't know if he's done stand up. I don't know about that. But I know that that and there's a lot of officiants that take on, in my opinion, the burden of writing custom ceremonies for every couple now. I know that a Bethel Nathan out of San Diego, who has been on this podcast and I have a tremendous amount of respect for. She does a questionnaire, which I think is very interesting. She does a questionnaire to find out more about the couple and then she constructs a ceremony based on the the feedback from the questionnaire. And I think there's some other officiants that do that as well. I referenced a very successful officiant in Santa Barbara. And I think she does the questionnaire process as well. Which is really interesting to me. I, I think that our system where we give them a lot of resources, and we let them pick out the things that that they resonate with is kind of like a different version of the questionnaire is funny. Before we hit the record button, I was telling you how I get annoyed with small talk or when people just don't get to the point. And so, it occurs to me that that the process of letting them find their ceremony is the way to shortcut the process so that you know what As opposed to the questioner, and then I got to figure something out, in our process, think about this way, where the couple kind of gets right to the heart of what they want. And they give it to us right away, as opposed to us, you know, having to figure it out. Does that make sense?
Joel Curtis 17:15
No, it does. And I always bring up to them, and it seeing something in there may spark something else. And of course, that is how the choice choices have grown so much, because someone says, oh, and they think of something else and bring it in, and then we put it in there. And,
Clint 17:34
One of our listeners is in England. First of all, I need to confess and apologize to everybody that has sent us an email. And for some reason, you didn't get a response right away. It's because I'm a dope. Because Gmail, I just discovered again, let me emphasize, I'm a dope. When I open up the Gmail, and I look at it, there's actually three categories. Did you know that there's three categories to Gmail? So with mail with Mac mail or whatever we use, it's just there it is, you know, whatever is in your inbox, there it is. And you can sort it and, and prioritize and whatever if you want to. But anyway, in Gmail, there's the regular email. Then there's the, the promotional email, and then there's the I think they call it the social email. Well, I just discovered that recently. And so I clicked on the other two tabs. And sure enough, there was her email from January. It might have even been December. And I immediately wrote back and said, I am so sorry, I just discovered this. The reason I bring it up, she had asked, I tell everybody, if you want to have a copy of the wedding ceremony choices, I will send them to you give them to anybody that wants them. They're free. And so she had requested that nice. I know it's been six months, but do you still want them She said, yeah. And she, she, I think I think it's kind of neat to see what are all the options and that kind of stuff. Because what you said is absolutely true. The ceremony choices keep growing, when I first started way more than 20 years ago, they were just 10 pages long, and now they're over 80 pages. And for those of you that think that's too much work for the couple, what I tell them is, make a copy of it. So you have to have exactly the same thing. So that the original document, you don't need to touch it at all. It'll always be there, you can always go back to it if you need to. But all we want to do to create a first draft, I understand that it's 80 pages, but it's organized as one big ceremony follows the flow of a typical wedding. You're not going to go back and forth between ceremony number one, sermon number two, No, that doesn't make sense to me. It's one huge ceremony. There's a table of contents if you need it. Sometimes people will go through and they say I really like this thing, but I don't know where it goes. And the answer is well it kind of goes where it is because it's already been curated, right? And so what I tell them is just go through and delete everything. You don't want to Just get rid of all that stuff that you never want to look at again. And believe it or not, because it's so diverse and it's so big. It turns 80 pages into about 10 pages. And now we've got something we can wrap our head around.
Joel Curtis 20:11
It happens rather quickly as well,
Clint 20:14
It does once they get into the rhythm of it. And of you know, no, I know what I don't want and that whole pages will just disappear with one swipe. And I also tell them that the thing I like about it is for those again, for those of you that think that my couple is never going to do that, or i have i've had event planners tell me that the couple doesn't want to do that. And what I interpret that is you don't think you would want to do it and you're, you're projecting that onto the couple. Because it's been my experience that whenever I explain the process, and the couple realizes, oh my gosh, I could really have exactly what I want. Yes. 98% of them love the process be especially because they know that they create the first draft Which is like 80% of the work and and they eliminate at least 75% of the document. And I tell them, I would do it it's just that I'm not that smart. I don't know exactly what you want or what you don't want so just go ahead and create a first draft Don't overthink it, just you know, delete all that stuff and whatever is leftover send back to me and then now we're, we're ready to rock and roll.
Joel Curtis 21:20
Well that in in conjunction with the there will be no surprises. I had a bride who looked at the list. She's like, Oh my gosh, this is wonderful. She was a bridesmaid at a wedding and in the middle of it, the officiant called people up for service in the middle of the ceremony, what does that mean call them up for service. We call them up to accept Jesus Christ as their personal Savior. He called them up right in the middle of ceremony and almost had kind of like a mini service in the middle of the bride ceremony. And of course, this bride was none too keen on that. And I said, Well, I said obviously the the bride knew that was coming. She said no herself was modified. Not that she didn't believe or anything like that it had nothing to do with faith or, or belief or, or Christianity. It just had to do with. She didn't want to put that on her guests. And I think that's a big thing. She saw my list. That was it. I was done. I was the guy. You know, you know, and then you have people who say they'll do things. Sorry, Clint, no. quick one. She, um, I booked one, kind of last minute. And she said, Well, I saw your list. I can add anything I want in there. I said yes. And she's kind of grilling me on this. And then we meet. And she said that the officiant they'd already hired told her the same thing. And then they got together and he put down three ceremonies in front of her.
And he said, okay, you can have anything you want A, B, or C.
And she said, Well, can I mix between a no. So no, it's almost like it's absolutely free. For $5 and I said no I said you can have whatever you want you can change add delete a word, a sentence, a paragraph, even once you've chosen I mean just whatever so that that goes into it. I think a lot of brides look at it and say okay brides and grooms you know, and then we tell them, no surprises for me. You guys want to surprise each other? That's great, but no surprises for me once it's done. We market final that's it. I'm not going to stray
Clint 23:31
A few years ago as a special guest we had on Brian Perry, who has certainly since got out of the he's left the wedding industry. I think he's doing corporate work. He had a video company and he told us the story of the uncle, who is in a wheelchair, and in the middle of the ceremony, pulled out sock puppets with the couples standing in front of him facing each other, he used them as like a An imaginary curtain, and he put his hands with the sock puppets in between them and had a dialogue between the sock puppets as if it was the couple. And that's a surprise. And Brian said that the Father of the Bride came up afterwards and it was his brother. I think that did it. And he said, We are mortified. Can you cut that out of the video? Yeah, of course.
But that it okay. When you started talking about the surprises thing and and calling up to be, you know, to be saved by Jesus in the middle of it. It reminds me of two things. Number one, it reminds me of the ceremony where I was a DJ, and the officiant comes up to me before the ceremony and says, Do you have reverb on your microphone? immediately in my head? Warning bells where they call it sirens everything there was danger warning will Robinson I know exactly. And fortunately, in this facility, he was going to go through the house system for the ceremony. He wasn't going to do the DJ system. And so I was That was my that was Was my out? I said, No, you're going to go through the house system. And I don't know, I don't think they have any controls like that. Just the idea that he wanted reverb on his microphone, told me this guy's up to something. And sure enough, this facility was amazing. They had a retractable roof. So when the bride made her interest, it looked like the heavens were opening up and God was shining down on, you know what I mean? It was just amazing. They get to in front of this guy, and he launches into a fire and brimstone sermon. before he even talks about the couple. He just, you know, goes out he's preaching. And, and the word that comes to me now because it's part of my vocabulary now is narcissism. How? Because I said, I said before, we officiants do love the sound of our own voice, but it it can take a turn where it can go off the deep end. If somebody doesn't say, Hey, shut up, you know, somewhere, somehow Somewhere along the process, somebody needs to say to everybody Shut up. It's not about you. When my brother in law got married, they he told the officiant they got married, like at a restaurant so it wasn't in a church or temple or any like that. They got married at a restaurant, they were outside this beautiful garden type of deal. And, and it was back in the day when we had handheld cameras, I forget what they call those camcorders. And, and I said, Well, I'll shoot it for you. And they told the officiant Listen, something really simple. 10 minutes is great. Just you know, we just want to get married and it'll be great. And the officiant agreed to that. And then went off on the ceremony that lasted 35 to 40 minutes to the point where in the middle of the ceremony, I had to change tapes. And, and I just thought, how insensitive is that? And it was just a simply a reminder that sometimes people just love the sound of their own voice and they have a captive audience and they're just going Go off.
Joel Curtis 27:06
Yeah, well, I was gonna say it back in the day, I would have just assumed the bride and groom knew that. But obviously the more I've learned over the years, not true.
Clint 27:17
Well, that's the word surprise. Yeah. I mean, obviously, in order for that word to be valid, it has to peace
Joel Curtis 27:24
Especially something big. Like calling people up or going into a, you know, like I say, a fire and brimstone. Yeah, I think that the bride would know that that that was saying because we talked about last week. I mean, if you're at a ceremony you see a ceremony and you go man, that was a great ceremony new hire that efficient that officiant always does that ceremony. That's perfect. That's a ceremony you want I get it. That's wonderful. Yeah. Yeah.
Clint 27:52
Well, that's another part of that is taking somebody out of their comfort zone or out of their, their their regular arena. From a disc jockey. standpoint you and I both know that you can take a radio DJ and put them in a club and they're lost. Same equipment, same exact same equipment, same music, same everything, but they're in a club and they're, they're lost, they don't have any idea. You can take a club DJ, put them in a wedding, they're lost. They just don't you know. And so you can take somebody that perhaps has a congregation and is used to doing a sermon every every week and that kind of stuff. And then you put them in the context of a wedding ceremony and they're lost. They don't think they're lost. But, you know, in hindsight, they were lost. You don't I mean, and so it's weird though, because we as officiant are in a kind of an awkward position because we want people to have a great ceremony. We want everybody to have brilliant memories of their wedding. We just do and and we accept the fact that there are physical limitations. There's only one of each of us and so we can't do every wedding even though I really want to do it anyway. Yeah, I would like to do them all. But But anyway, so the point is, is that how do you because I see every now and then, you know, so Nobody will say 10 tips on how to choose your officiant. And I don't know how you include, you know, don't hire a jerk, or tips to recognize narcissism in your officiant, you know, I don't know how you get that without looking like a jerk. You know what I mean?
Joel Curtis 29:16
Well, you said we all like the sound of our own voice. So it's really just the level of narcissism, I think, at this point.
Clint 29:24
Well, yeah, I guess.
Joel Curtis 29:36
Well, you know, when you talked to me many years ago about you'd be great at this. Because, you know, as you talk to me about before, it's all about the bride and groom. That's our approach. It's all about the bride and groom.
Clint 29:48
Yeah, and everything that's connected that could get in the way of that.
Joel Curtis 29:51
Yeah. And it sounds so simple, yet. You know, that's what it is. It's all about the bride and groom. You know, I think it's To the story, the dad who some of the beautiful location, gorgeous day, and the groom was Jewish, the bride was not. And he said, Well, he's gonna break the glass right? And I said, No.
And he said, No, he has to break the glass. I said, No, he doesn't.
And he goes, No, he has to and I said, Sir, I said, we're going to do the ceremony. I said, he's not going to break the glass. I'm going to take the license, and I'm going to Psalm eyes it and I'm going to mail it into the county clerk and they will be married. And the thing is that already discussed with the groom, he does not want to break the glass.
Clint 30:35
Well, that's the key information. That's a key piece of it.
Joel Curtis 30:37
Right. And that will that's my that's my whole point about you know, I always tell them, I'll fight to the rock to the death, you know, you're right to have this. And so I stood up to his dad, he never knew. I never told him.
Clint 30:48
Okay, that brings up a really good point where what I have added in 2003, I did the first of the TV weddings. And so there are cameras everywhere. They cover Everything and we're in the bridal suite. And the father of the bride walks up to me and says, When are you going to ask me who gives this woman to be married to this man? And he was a he was a really nice guy. And the cameras were catching this moment. And I thought to myself, Oh, man, you poor guy. I'm about to tell you something you do not want to hear. And it's going to go on video. Fortunately, it did not make it into the final show, which is thank God, but I said to him, they've chosen not to include that in the ceremony. And you know how somebody can maintain their composure but in their eyes, you can tell there's a lot of stuff going on behind those eyes. That's what happened. And he said, Oh, okay.
Now the other thing talk about surprises every now and then we get surprised as officiants. That same wedding, right before the ceremony begins. One of the mothers handed me a Bible and it was the family The Bible, and she wanted me to use the Bible during the ceremony. Now, you would think, how would you like me to use this? Which means to tap them on both on the head and say, or put your hand on here, I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing. But what do you want me to do with this Bible? Because all of the content of the ceremony that's already been figured out, and I've got it in front of me, what am I supposed to do with this Bible? And I it was, I said, Thank you. There wasn't an awkward moment between the two of us. I said, Oh, this is fantastic. This is very meaningful. Thank you very much. Then I internally suffered the awkward moment of what the heck am I going to do with this, and then I thought, you know what, I'm just gonna hang on to it. And then when she walks up the aisle, and everybody's attention is on her. I will just very quietly turn around, and I'll place it on the counter or whatever it is behind me. Now, in most situations, that would work great. But in this situation, it was a television set, you know, there were plenty of pink flowers and, everything and I looked around, and there was no place for me to put that Bible. There was no ledge, there was no flat surface. There was nothing around me. And I'm talking about within 12 feet. There was nothing around me to do something with that Bible. So my I had to get it out of my hands because I had stuff to do. Otherwise, they did a sand ceremony and stuff like that. So I said, I got to give it to this Bible. And all I did was I looked at the best man who's the brother of the groom? And I said, I forget his name, Bobby. That's not his name.
He takes it. He doesn't want to hold it either. I think because he's got the rings. So he passes it to the person next to him. The bridal party was fairly big. I think there was like, six or seven groomsmen on that side. I once it left my hands, I kind of left it left my mind because I was the being of the ceremony and I have work to do. It turns out that the groomsmen all passed it down to the very last guy. And to this day, I have no idea what he did with that Bible. I don't think that I don't know where it went. I'm sure they got it back. I mean, it's not like he ran off with it. Look at me. But that whole surprise thing, huh?
Well, we've run out of time.
I was talking. And so I'm kind of tired of the sound of my own voice.
Joel Curtis 34:38
Impossible.
Clint 34:42
Yeah, I know. Really? Exactly.
Well, thanks again. Remember everybody, all of our episodes are archived on our website. It's wedding ceremony, podcast calm, and they're all chronological. You can see the most recent one at the top. If you want to subscribe. That's easy. Just go to the Apple Store and find our podcast wedding ceremony podcast and then click on the subscribe button. Every time we post a new episode. It'll automatically come into your world. You also can email us just go to wedding ceremony podcast comm and click on the Email button and then you can reach out. And if you don't mind waiting six months, then whatever you would like to engage with now, okay, you're not gonna wait six months and now I know how it works. But if you have questions, if you have anything that you would like to contribute anything that you want to bring to our attention, please we love it, love it, love it. And also we want to thank the incredible musicians that play our theme music that are capo players da ca p o players.com. That's it for this episode of the wedding ceremony podcast. This is Clinton. On behalf of Joel We will see you next time.
Oh, Joel's website is ReverendJoel.com. And I know what I want to talk about. And then my is Reverendclint.com or ClintHufft.com for all the things that I do. You know, I do believe there are silver linings to every cloud. First of all, does that concept. Is that plausible? What do you think?
Joel Curtis 0:56
It is plausible? Sometimes it doesn't feel that way. But yes, if you look deep enough.
Clint 3:43
So I was thinking about the whole idea of, of being safe, considering, you know, the, the climate of the pandemic and all that kind of stuff. But yet, but get keeping the intimacy of the ceremony. Now, there are some officiants who are doing ceremonies and they they just all caution to the wind, and they just, you know, go about as if nothing was going on, then there are the other officiants who are in the completely opposite ends of the spectrum. And they're very, very, very cautious. They have to wear a mask, they got to wear gloves, they got to you know what I mean? And and they do the ceremony. I think, while I'm presenting this to you, I it occurs to me that it all depends on the client, on the couple that's getting married and what they want from a certain standpoint, but then the person that's very strict about the protocol, the safety protocols, will not do a ceremony unless the couple says is willing to To accept the safety protocols What do you think about all that?
Joel Curtis 5:04
I'm ambivalent I feel as you well know I'm like whatever the bride and groom want I'm a real stickler for whatever you want. I've told you before I tell them I will whatever you want I'll fight to the death your right to have it.
However, we all want to be safe and it's so it makes it difficult. It makes it difficult I do think that you can do the ceremony and still be you know far enough away from the bride and groom where you're not really putting yourself at harm especially they're facing each other like talking to each other. So anything you know, being expelled from their mouth for lack of a better term goes towards each other and not told you
Clint 5:48
I think about how to myself in the hot air that comes out of my own mouth all the time. Oh, that's what my dad used to say if somebody talked a lot. You're full of hot air.
Joel Curtis 5:59
Oh yeah. I've been accused a few times.
Clint
That phrase specifically?
Joel
Yes. Full of hot air. Are you a good fellow?
Clint 6:11
I think that's generational. I'm not sure that Gen Z would understand what we were talking about. No. The other phrase that my dad was oh, this is gross. Wow, this came out. I mean, it's been decades. He said, if he didn't think you were talking sense. He would say you're drinking your own bathwater. Now, I don't know the origination of that phrase, but that's disgusting.
Joel Curtis 6:39
Yeah, especially if you add that with don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Clint 6:43
Well, maybe that was origination of I don't know. Anyway, they. Well, okay. So we're talking about a scenario That's very interesting. And in current climate, it looks like Los Angeles County. There's been like a resurgence of positive cases. Since So the mayor has clamped down again, I haven't heard about a restriction of the number of people that can gather at one point. But I know they they're closing the bars again. And I just think that that there's got to be, there's got to be a way for all of this to coexist. So that couples, my primary objective is brilliant memories for the couple. That's, that drives everything that I do you know what I mean? Yes. So I have a feeling that maybe some of them take it as an adventure. Like, you know, those people that would like to get married jumping out of a plane or they want to get married, and it wasn't funny that the the ring bear, you know, ran away with the rings or something like that. And they'll think, you know, this is gonna make our ceremony memorable. So maybe if they have the right attitude, they've decided to go ahead with their wedding, they're going to accept whatever the parameters are. I mean, that's sounds like a pretty strong possibility. Does that make sense?
Joel Curtis 8:01
Yes. And I can see the ceremony going off with the social distancing and everything. I just see it being a little more difficult with the reception.
Clint 8:11
Oh, yeah, that makes sense.
Joel Curtis 8:15
And although I did see, how many people you're going to invite, and how many people, you know, and how big is the space? So if you say, well, we'll pare it down from 150 to 75. Well, can you still spread 75 people out at that amount of distance? You know? Well, I think they might be crammed in, right,
Clint 8:35
That's down the road. I mean, even if the limit is 50 people, let's just pretend that it is. Okay. I thought, one of the amazing things about the world that we live in is that everything is online, all the video is online. And if somebody wants to, you know, everything is just everything is there, the video, and I saw a backyard reception, where they were playing like the first dance and the wedding party, but they were all spread out. There was a couple over here and there's a couple of Over there, there's a couple over there. And they were and they were dancing. Right. And, and so, I guess all of that has to be taken into consideration there, that camaraderie, I think where most people are feeling the most anxiety is the loss of human physical connection, you know, hugs and bumping up against somebody that you like, and, you know, all of that kind of stuff. I know, no, one thing ever was a better way to say that. But it could be that this is gonna open up maybe some more adventurous content of the ceremony, where people are going to say, Well, if we have to do this, then we're going to add that.
Joel Curtis 9:49
Where there's a will there's a way or when there's a will there's a way? There are people much smarter than me who will come up with solutions.
Well, Oh, I like this. And yeah, what a great idea. And boom, things move forward.
Clint 10:09
Throughout history, there have been a lot of examples of amazing companies that have started during economic depressions. I mean, you know, what I heard is the chocolate chip cookie was invented during the Depression of the 30s. I don't know anymore about the story. But there's a bunch of businesses that are very successful that started during the economic recession of 2008. And so it'll be fascinating to see what comes out of this. The other thing is that the minute that the quarantine and the pandemic and the shutdown all took effect, and we were able to really wrap our minds around how this is going to affect the event industry. Like it's over for a while. The fact that there was I had this huge light at the end of the tunnel. I didn't know how long the tunnel was going to be, but I knew that if it's a medical problem, we, somebody really smart scientists, the medical community, they have solved these issues before. And they also know, like what Warren Buffett said that he believes in the American economy, they've survived so many different things, and they always come back. And so he's not worried about the American economy. The issue is just how long is it gonna last? And sometimes it's difficult for people to look that long,
Joel Curtis 11:27
Especially when it's never happened before. Well, I mean, it's happened before, but not in our lifetime. You know, I don't recall 1918 1919.
Clint 11:37
Oh, you weren't there? Oh,
Joel Curtis 11:39
no, let me tell you I was there. I just don't recall.
Clint 11:43
That reminds me of a ceremony that I did. When the couple did personal vows. And I think that the groom was some sort of a scientist, Professor, whatever. I'm not sure exactly. But he said something in the personal vows that I thought was awesome. And he says, We are Both cosmic dust that has been around since the beginning of time, and somehow are your cosmic dust and my cosmic dust that is us found each other. And I thought, wow, that's on the macro. It was just so beautiful. It's interesting how you can turn quantum physics into romantic jargon. Your cosmic dust and my cosmic dust fell in love. That's, that was awesome.
I did a ceremony where the two of them were both writers. I think they've done okay. There's a lot of different types of writers. And so this difference between writing a technical manual as opposed to creative endeavors, and so I think they both wrote for television or movies or novels or something along those lines, something where there was really like a creative process. And so they came up with the idea that they were going to do personal vows. But they wrote for the other person, as if they were talking about themselves. So they wrote each other's personal vows. And it was brilliant. It was amazing.
Joel Curtis 13:14
Wow. Just the trust level alone right there.
Clint 13:28
Well, it was kind of tit for tat type of deal. Yeah, they were both in. Yeah. And, it was wonderful. And there was laughter and there was tears and, and to be able to say something like
I'm speaking somebody else's words, but they're coming from me. I know how lucky you feel to have met me.
Joel Curtis 13:53
Now, that's funny. You get that and I get the comedy writer who says, Hey, Joel, can you punch up the ceremony Little bit
Clint 14:03
thought of being with a with a rim shot.
Joel Curtis 14:06
And I actually did. I actually wrote something based on the first time that they saw each other and he loved it. He absolutely loved it. And even her vows were, were poignant and sweet. But funny.
Clint 14:21
Do you remember what you said about him? How did you punch it up?
Joel Curtis 14:24
The first time that she saw him he was in a scuba outfit in the garbage can in a bar.
Clint 14:36
Wait, no, no, you got to stop right there. Wait a minute. The first time she saw him, he was in a scuba outfit. In a trash can. Inside a bar?
Joel Curtis 14:48
Yes. I believe he was being hazed or pranked or whatever it was. And that's the first time she saw that. And then I found a quote from like, Wadsworth. There's something about love at first sight. I think I put a little twist on it, but it's been it's been a little while now but yeah. And he loved it. By the way. It was a great ceremony.
Clint 15:19
I would think so. I mean, if you had that in it, I would think so. I A reminds me of Christopher Shelley. He's an officiant out in the New York area somewhere out there. And he's written a book, best wedding ceremony ever, I think is the name of that book. And he was a guest on the podcast and he's emailed us and we've communicated a number of times. He comes from a theatrical background, and I don't know if he's done stand up. I don't know about that. But I know that that and there's a lot of officiants that take on, in my opinion, the burden of writing custom ceremonies for every couple now. I know that a Bethel Nathan out of San Diego, who has been on this podcast and I have a tremendous amount of respect for. She does a questionnaire, which I think is very interesting. She does a questionnaire to find out more about the couple and then she constructs a ceremony based on the the feedback from the questionnaire. And I think there's some other officiants that do that as well. I referenced a very successful officiant in Santa Barbara. And I think she does the questionnaire process as well. Which is really interesting to me. I, I think that our system where we give them a lot of resources, and we let them pick out the things that that they resonate with is kind of like a different version of the questionnaire is funny. Before we hit the record button, I was telling you how I get annoyed with small talk or when people just don't get to the point. And so, it occurs to me that that the process of letting them find their ceremony is the way to shortcut the process so that you know what As opposed to the questioner, and then I got to figure something out, in our process, think about this way, where the couple kind of gets right to the heart of what they want. And they give it to us right away, as opposed to us, you know, having to figure it out. Does that make sense?
Joel Curtis 17:15
No, it does. And I always bring up to them, and it seeing something in there may spark something else. And of course, that is how the choice choices have grown so much, because someone says, oh, and they think of something else and bring it in, and then we put it in there. And,
Clint 17:34
One of our listeners is in England. First of all, I need to confess and apologize to everybody that has sent us an email. And for some reason, you didn't get a response right away. It's because I'm a dope. Because Gmail, I just discovered again, let me emphasize, I'm a dope. When I open up the Gmail, and I look at it, there's actually three categories. Did you know that there's three categories to Gmail? So with mail with Mac mail or whatever we use, it's just there it is, you know, whatever is in your inbox, there it is. And you can sort it and, and prioritize and whatever if you want to. But anyway, in Gmail, there's the regular email. Then there's the, the promotional email, and then there's the I think they call it the social email. Well, I just discovered that recently. And so I clicked on the other two tabs. And sure enough, there was her email from January. It might have even been December. And I immediately wrote back and said, I am so sorry, I just discovered this. The reason I bring it up, she had asked, I tell everybody, if you want to have a copy of the wedding ceremony choices, I will send them to you give them to anybody that wants them. They're free. And so she had requested that nice. I know it's been six months, but do you still want them She said, yeah. And she, she, I think I think it's kind of neat to see what are all the options and that kind of stuff. Because what you said is absolutely true. The ceremony choices keep growing, when I first started way more than 20 years ago, they were just 10 pages long, and now they're over 80 pages. And for those of you that think that's too much work for the couple, what I tell them is, make a copy of it. So you have to have exactly the same thing. So that the original document, you don't need to touch it at all. It'll always be there, you can always go back to it if you need to. But all we want to do to create a first draft, I understand that it's 80 pages, but it's organized as one big ceremony follows the flow of a typical wedding. You're not going to go back and forth between ceremony number one, sermon number two, No, that doesn't make sense to me. It's one huge ceremony. There's a table of contents if you need it. Sometimes people will go through and they say I really like this thing, but I don't know where it goes. And the answer is well it kind of goes where it is because it's already been curated, right? And so what I tell them is just go through and delete everything. You don't want to Just get rid of all that stuff that you never want to look at again. And believe it or not, because it's so diverse and it's so big. It turns 80 pages into about 10 pages. And now we've got something we can wrap our head around.
Joel Curtis 20:11
It happens rather quickly as well,
Clint 20:14
It does once they get into the rhythm of it. And of you know, no, I know what I don't want and that whole pages will just disappear with one swipe. And I also tell them that the thing I like about it is for those again, for those of you that think that my couple is never going to do that, or i have i've had event planners tell me that the couple doesn't want to do that. And what I interpret that is you don't think you would want to do it and you're, you're projecting that onto the couple. Because it's been my experience that whenever I explain the process, and the couple realizes, oh my gosh, I could really have exactly what I want. Yes. 98% of them love the process be especially because they know that they create the first draft Which is like 80% of the work and and they eliminate at least 75% of the document. And I tell them, I would do it it's just that I'm not that smart. I don't know exactly what you want or what you don't want so just go ahead and create a first draft Don't overthink it, just you know, delete all that stuff and whatever is leftover send back to me and then now we're, we're ready to rock and roll.
Joel Curtis 21:20
Well that in in conjunction with the there will be no surprises. I had a bride who looked at the list. She's like, Oh my gosh, this is wonderful. She was a bridesmaid at a wedding and in the middle of it, the officiant called people up for service in the middle of the ceremony, what does that mean call them up for service. We call them up to accept Jesus Christ as their personal Savior. He called them up right in the middle of ceremony and almost had kind of like a mini service in the middle of the bride ceremony. And of course, this bride was none too keen on that. And I said, Well, I said obviously the the bride knew that was coming. She said no herself was modified. Not that she didn't believe or anything like that it had nothing to do with faith or, or belief or, or Christianity. It just had to do with. She didn't want to put that on her guests. And I think that's a big thing. She saw my list. That was it. I was done. I was the guy. You know, you know, and then you have people who say they'll do things. Sorry, Clint, no. quick one. She, um, I booked one, kind of last minute. And she said, Well, I saw your list. I can add anything I want in there. I said yes. And she's kind of grilling me on this. And then we meet. And she said that the officiant they'd already hired told her the same thing. And then they got together and he put down three ceremonies in front of her.
And he said, okay, you can have anything you want A, B, or C.
And she said, Well, can I mix between a no. So no, it's almost like it's absolutely free. For $5 and I said no I said you can have whatever you want you can change add delete a word, a sentence, a paragraph, even once you've chosen I mean just whatever so that that goes into it. I think a lot of brides look at it and say okay brides and grooms you know, and then we tell them, no surprises for me. You guys want to surprise each other? That's great, but no surprises for me once it's done. We market final that's it. I'm not going to stray
Clint 23:31
A few years ago as a special guest we had on Brian Perry, who has certainly since got out of the he's left the wedding industry. I think he's doing corporate work. He had a video company and he told us the story of the uncle, who is in a wheelchair, and in the middle of the ceremony, pulled out sock puppets with the couples standing in front of him facing each other, he used them as like a An imaginary curtain, and he put his hands with the sock puppets in between them and had a dialogue between the sock puppets as if it was the couple. And that's a surprise. And Brian said that the Father of the Bride came up afterwards and it was his brother. I think that did it. And he said, We are mortified. Can you cut that out of the video? Yeah, of course.
But that it okay. When you started talking about the surprises thing and and calling up to be, you know, to be saved by Jesus in the middle of it. It reminds me of two things. Number one, it reminds me of the ceremony where I was a DJ, and the officiant comes up to me before the ceremony and says, Do you have reverb on your microphone? immediately in my head? Warning bells where they call it sirens everything there was danger warning will Robinson I know exactly. And fortunately, in this facility, he was going to go through the house system for the ceremony. He wasn't going to do the DJ system. And so I was That was my that was Was my out? I said, No, you're going to go through the house system. And I don't know, I don't think they have any controls like that. Just the idea that he wanted reverb on his microphone, told me this guy's up to something. And sure enough, this facility was amazing. They had a retractable roof. So when the bride made her interest, it looked like the heavens were opening up and God was shining down on, you know what I mean? It was just amazing. They get to in front of this guy, and he launches into a fire and brimstone sermon. before he even talks about the couple. He just, you know, goes out he's preaching. And, and the word that comes to me now because it's part of my vocabulary now is narcissism. How? Because I said, I said before, we officiants do love the sound of our own voice, but it it can take a turn where it can go off the deep end. If somebody doesn't say, Hey, shut up, you know, somewhere, somehow Somewhere along the process, somebody needs to say to everybody Shut up. It's not about you. When my brother in law got married, they he told the officiant they got married, like at a restaurant so it wasn't in a church or temple or any like that. They got married at a restaurant, they were outside this beautiful garden type of deal. And, and it was back in the day when we had handheld cameras, I forget what they call those camcorders. And, and I said, Well, I'll shoot it for you. And they told the officiant Listen, something really simple. 10 minutes is great. Just you know, we just want to get married and it'll be great. And the officiant agreed to that. And then went off on the ceremony that lasted 35 to 40 minutes to the point where in the middle of the ceremony, I had to change tapes. And, and I just thought, how insensitive is that? And it was just a simply a reminder that sometimes people just love the sound of their own voice and they have a captive audience and they're just going Go off.
Joel Curtis 27:06
Yeah, well, I was gonna say it back in the day, I would have just assumed the bride and groom knew that. But obviously the more I've learned over the years, not true.
Clint 27:17
Well, that's the word surprise. Yeah. I mean, obviously, in order for that word to be valid, it has to peace
Joel Curtis 27:24
Especially something big. Like calling people up or going into a, you know, like I say, a fire and brimstone. Yeah, I think that the bride would know that that that was saying because we talked about last week. I mean, if you're at a ceremony you see a ceremony and you go man, that was a great ceremony new hire that efficient that officiant always does that ceremony. That's perfect. That's a ceremony you want I get it. That's wonderful. Yeah. Yeah.
Clint 27:52
Well, that's another part of that is taking somebody out of their comfort zone or out of their, their their regular arena. From a disc jockey. standpoint you and I both know that you can take a radio DJ and put them in a club and they're lost. Same equipment, same exact same equipment, same music, same everything, but they're in a club and they're, they're lost, they don't have any idea. You can take a club DJ, put them in a wedding, they're lost. They just don't you know. And so you can take somebody that perhaps has a congregation and is used to doing a sermon every every week and that kind of stuff. And then you put them in the context of a wedding ceremony and they're lost. They don't think they're lost. But, you know, in hindsight, they were lost. You don't I mean, and so it's weird though, because we as officiant are in a kind of an awkward position because we want people to have a great ceremony. We want everybody to have brilliant memories of their wedding. We just do and and we accept the fact that there are physical limitations. There's only one of each of us and so we can't do every wedding even though I really want to do it anyway. Yeah, I would like to do them all. But But anyway, so the point is, is that how do you because I see every now and then, you know, so Nobody will say 10 tips on how to choose your officiant. And I don't know how you include, you know, don't hire a jerk, or tips to recognize narcissism in your officiant, you know, I don't know how you get that without looking like a jerk. You know what I mean?
Joel Curtis 29:16
Well, you said we all like the sound of our own voice. So it's really just the level of narcissism, I think, at this point.
Clint 29:24
Well, yeah, I guess.
Joel Curtis 29:36
Well, you know, when you talked to me many years ago about you'd be great at this. Because, you know, as you talk to me about before, it's all about the bride and groom. That's our approach. It's all about the bride and groom.
Clint 29:48
Yeah, and everything that's connected that could get in the way of that.
Joel Curtis 29:51
Yeah. And it sounds so simple, yet. You know, that's what it is. It's all about the bride and groom. You know, I think it's To the story, the dad who some of the beautiful location, gorgeous day, and the groom was Jewish, the bride was not. And he said, Well, he's gonna break the glass right? And I said, No.
And he said, No, he has to break the glass. I said, No, he doesn't.
And he goes, No, he has to and I said, Sir, I said, we're going to do the ceremony. I said, he's not going to break the glass. I'm going to take the license, and I'm going to Psalm eyes it and I'm going to mail it into the county clerk and they will be married. And the thing is that already discussed with the groom, he does not want to break the glass.
Clint 30:35
Well, that's the key information. That's a key piece of it.
Joel Curtis 30:37
Right. And that will that's my that's my whole point about you know, I always tell them, I'll fight to the rock to the death, you know, you're right to have this. And so I stood up to his dad, he never knew. I never told him.
Clint 30:48
Okay, that brings up a really good point where what I have added in 2003, I did the first of the TV weddings. And so there are cameras everywhere. They cover Everything and we're in the bridal suite. And the father of the bride walks up to me and says, When are you going to ask me who gives this woman to be married to this man? And he was a he was a really nice guy. And the cameras were catching this moment. And I thought to myself, Oh, man, you poor guy. I'm about to tell you something you do not want to hear. And it's going to go on video. Fortunately, it did not make it into the final show, which is thank God, but I said to him, they've chosen not to include that in the ceremony. And you know how somebody can maintain their composure but in their eyes, you can tell there's a lot of stuff going on behind those eyes. That's what happened. And he said, Oh, okay.
Now the other thing talk about surprises every now and then we get surprised as officiants. That same wedding, right before the ceremony begins. One of the mothers handed me a Bible and it was the family The Bible, and she wanted me to use the Bible during the ceremony. Now, you would think, how would you like me to use this? Which means to tap them on both on the head and say, or put your hand on here, I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing. But what do you want me to do with this Bible? Because all of the content of the ceremony that's already been figured out, and I've got it in front of me, what am I supposed to do with this Bible? And I it was, I said, Thank you. There wasn't an awkward moment between the two of us. I said, Oh, this is fantastic. This is very meaningful. Thank you very much. Then I internally suffered the awkward moment of what the heck am I going to do with this, and then I thought, you know what, I'm just gonna hang on to it. And then when she walks up the aisle, and everybody's attention is on her. I will just very quietly turn around, and I'll place it on the counter or whatever it is behind me. Now, in most situations, that would work great. But in this situation, it was a television set, you know, there were plenty of pink flowers and, everything and I looked around, and there was no place for me to put that Bible. There was no ledge, there was no flat surface. There was nothing around me. And I'm talking about within 12 feet. There was nothing around me to do something with that Bible. So my I had to get it out of my hands because I had stuff to do. Otherwise, they did a sand ceremony and stuff like that. So I said, I got to give it to this Bible. And all I did was I looked at the best man who's the brother of the groom? And I said, I forget his name, Bobby. That's not his name.
He takes it. He doesn't want to hold it either. I think because he's got the rings. So he passes it to the person next to him. The bridal party was fairly big. I think there was like, six or seven groomsmen on that side. I once it left my hands, I kind of left it left my mind because I was the being of the ceremony and I have work to do. It turns out that the groomsmen all passed it down to the very last guy. And to this day, I have no idea what he did with that Bible. I don't think that I don't know where it went. I'm sure they got it back. I mean, it's not like he ran off with it. Look at me. But that whole surprise thing, huh?
Well, we've run out of time.
I was talking. And so I'm kind of tired of the sound of my own voice.
Joel Curtis 34:38
Impossible.
Clint 34:42
Yeah, I know. Really? Exactly.
Well, thanks again. Remember everybody, all of our episodes are archived on our website. It's wedding ceremony, podcast calm, and they're all chronological. You can see the most recent one at the top. If you want to subscribe. That's easy. Just go to the Apple Store and find our podcast wedding ceremony podcast and then click on the subscribe button. Every time we post a new episode. It'll automatically come into your world. You also can email us just go to wedding ceremony podcast comm and click on the Email button and then you can reach out. And if you don't mind waiting six months, then whatever you would like to engage with now, okay, you're not gonna wait six months and now I know how it works. But if you have questions, if you have anything that you would like to contribute anything that you want to bring to our attention, please we love it, love it, love it. And also we want to thank the incredible musicians that play our theme music that are capo players da ca p o players.com. That's it for this episode of the wedding ceremony podcast. This is Clinton. On behalf of Joel We will see you next time.