Clint:
Welcome to the wedding ceremony podcast this is episode number two recorded on Tuesday, February 11, 2014. This is Rev. Clint Hufft with Rev. JP Reynolds talking about anything that has to do with wedding ceremonies. JP everything good?
JP:
A morning Clint. Good talking.
Clint:
So we were talking before we started recording and there’s so many things in regards to a wedding ceremony that are sensitive. You hope that people will be a look at each other, the couple, and say what’s in their heart and just kind of solidify the commitments. But there's so many complexities that go into a wedding ceremony at times. You mentioned that every now and then will do an interfaith ceremony and some relative will say something very specific about “no you can't have that”. You know what I’m talking about?
JP:
Right. Absolutely. You know, my experience, my background, is unique in that I began all this as a Catholic priest, Roman Catholic priest. Resigned many years ago when my theology become more liberal than the church’s policy. Out of respect for all involved I resigned from ministry and now function as a nondenominational officiant like yourself. It does interest me because I get folks who will indicate that they were raised Catholic, Episcopalian, Lutheran, Methodist, and overtime, especially by the time they hit college, started to fade away from their faith, the denomination of their family. Weddings, I find, revive that old-time religion as it were. It pushes buttons. For instance, I had a bride who was raised Catholic. No longer practiced, did not want a Catholic wedding. A couple months after she hired me she was all upset because her father was threatening to boycott the wedding. because she's not having a Catholic wedding. Now the kicker is her father had been married three times. Her father in the eyes of the Catholic Church only had one wedding. He divorces the bride's mother, married two more times and now is upset the bride is not getting married in the church. I’m thinking, wow. As you know, weddings, people started to have real wacka doo thinking.
Clint:
Yeah people get really kinda crazy. It's like a heightened reality and not everybody thinks clearly. and that concern about what somebody else will think but also I think it's unfair where is somebody kinda says I'm not coming if you don't do this or wear this or whatever the case may be. There’s this loss of of priorities. Most of us would think, how the world could be that important that you wouldn't go to your daughter's wedding? Because she's not doing what you want her to do. I don't know, it's kind of weird.
JP:
I refer to that as emotional blackmail.
Clint:
Yeah, absolutely.
JP:
Emotional blackmail. I have seen it I recently. Just last month I arrived at the wedding, the event planner took me aside and said there’s a few things you need to understand. This wedding was almost called off the night before. The groom's mother decided that after their three years of dating she decided, at the rehearsal, she would inform the bride that she didn't like her, didn’t approve of the wedding and didn’t want the bride’s children to participate in the ceremony. And if they did, she was going to turn around and fly back home.
Clint:
At the rehearsal she said that?
JP:
At the rehearsal. The night before the wedding. The bride and groom lived outside of California. So a lot of people flying in. Now I'm thinking you could not have said this at the airport before you flew down here?
Clint:
That's a three-year window, JP. It's a three-year window she could have said this. This is the mother of the groom?
JP:
This is the mother of the groom. It wasn’t because of religion. It was because the bride had been previously married and had two children. So she was spoiled.
Clint:
Oh man. That's just like the worst word. So now, in my head, this is where the groom has to step up. That's just my thinking.
JP:
Both the bride and groom capitulated. They gave into the emotional blackmail. The children were not allowed to walk in the procession. They did not sit in the front row. They did not present the rings. And I looked out onto the lawn and I looked at 199 smiling faces. There, in the front row, was the one face that was not smiling.
Clint:
Whose face was that?
JP:
The mother of the groom.
Clint:
You’d have thought the kids would've been, you know.. Still, with all of that, she still was Miss Grumpy Face.
JP:
To call her Miss Grumpy Face is whimsically polite. I went up to the photographer and I said to him I presume you are going to Photoshop out this woman from every photo. Over my time I have encountered this where, most especially parents, will offer emotional black mail.
Clint:
Now I understand if the parent is paying for everything. You have all this money or somebody has all this money invested. Then there's this social pressure… I always tell every groom, because I think they don’t always get this, how much pressure a bride feels. It’s peer pressure from a certain standpoint. She's the headliner. Everybody’s coming to her wedding. Yeah, okay, she's marrying this guy but it has a structure to where she feels all this pressure to do everything “right”. So the process of saying well okay I’m gonna have this big wedding and is can be beautiful and it has a bunch of money involved in and the person with the wallet is about to yank out you know back out and not pay for anything or whatever the case may be. Then I can understand where - and I have said this to couples - listen, you have to focus. We mentioned this in last episode. You have to focus on what's really important. What you're feeling between the two of you. Then, figure what's important and what isn’t important. If it’s really important to whoever's paying the money that it be in this venue and they invited 150 of their friends to this event. You just happen to be kind of like a reason why we all get together. And you don’t care then go ahead and do your wedding and and look at each other and have great photos. If you don't care. But there are sometimes with a couple start throwing around emotional blackmail. I've seen the other side of the coin where the parents or somebody really wants to be involved. That's where the bridezilla mentality comes in. It’s me me me me me.
JP:
right right right
Clint:
You and I are pretty lucky in that the type of weddings that we do a lot of this stuff gets filtered out before it comes to us do you find that true
JP:
Very much so, very much so. There’s so many good things you just said there. I wanted to point out, and I've written about this, that a gift is only a gift if there are no strings attached. So I understand about who has the purse strings. Personally it does rankle me when I hear people say my parents are paying for this. And they said that because they're paying for it they now get the right for XYZ. Well, what the parents are doing is not really giving you a gift. What they are doing is they are a corporate sponsor of your wedding. As such they have corporate sponsorship perks. A friend of mine who was a single mother with her only child, her daughter got married she gave her X amount of money. She said, “Danielle, I love you. Here's the money. Do what you want with it. The only thing I ask is that you play YMCA at some point during the reception because it’s my favorite song.”
Clint:
Oh my gosh. I like that mom already.
JP:
I was in awe. I love Becky, I’m a little biased. A very dear friend. But the fact that it was like she said, “you know, I had my wedding. It didn't work out quite the way I wanted it to, but I love Danielle. This is her day. I want YMCA.” There’s a great generosity of spirit there.
Clint:
I agree. What kind of advice do you offer when you find a couple that is facing emotional blackmail? I remember sitting down to a meeting and the mother of the bride had flown all the way from the East Coast. The bride was kind of what you've already described. I always figure by the time they get to the point where they really want to get married, they've had a lot of discussions. They've had discussions about everything that is important to them. At least you hope. Especially what they believe in, what they don't believe in, and if they want to have kids. They've had a discussion about that. You just kind of hope that a lot of them have. Even if they haven't gone through formal premarital counseling, they've had discussions about who they are and what they believe in. So this bride and her fiancé felt spiritual but religion was not their thing. But the mom was very much into a structured religious environment or culture, if you will. My process is I give every couple a huge collection of resources. I let them pick and choose and find what speaks to them. When I sat down the bride had what I call the Ceremony Choices. She had that out and she said, “Mom, just whatever you want. You want more prayers? Doing more Scripture? Just tell me what you want.” There was this cat and mouse game going on in front of me. Which I thought was interesting. That the bride would take that approach. To say, even though I don't believe in all of this and this doesn't feel like who we are as a couple, I’ll do it just so that I get a smile from you, Mom. That conversation was fascinating. Because the mom looked at me, thinking that because of my title that I would back her up 100%. Aren’t you clergy? Of course you think exactly the way I do. I said to her, “I have a different approach, because everybody's spirituality is so unique to themselves. How we connect with the Divine or not. What really is most important to me is that the two of them are extremely happy and they say what's in their hearts during this pivotal moment in their life. However much or little of that kind of religious context is in the liturgy is completely up to them.” And you I could tell her eyes it was kinda like “your pulling the rug out from under me, Mr. Preacher Man.” She actually looked at me and said, “I feel sorry for you that you don't have a true connection to Jesus Christ our Lord.” Then she got up and went to the bathroom. The bride looks at me and she says, “I am so sorry.” She was mortified. I said listen I've been through this before. You don't have to worry about a thing. I understand completely where she's coming from. I understandably completely where you're coming from. I hope you understand what my priorities are. I know that we can find a happy medium and I know it's going to be beautiful. So don't worry about this kind of little petty stuff. It's not that big of a deal. She hasn't hurt my feelings. I know who I am. I know what my faith is. So don’t worry about that. But it was it was quite a powerful moment. I felt really bad for the bride. She was mortified. Then again, it’s not like she just met her mom. She requested this meeting with me in hopes that somehow something would be communicated and smoothed over. I guess sometimes you just have to lay it on the table and and then go from there. You’re a communications expert. I'm sure that you dealt with this stuff many times.
JP:
Oh, yeah, yeah, I saw the weak side of
Clint:
That was such a big sigh.
JP:
Such a big sigh. Actually, Clint, this is a great topic for a future podcast. Because we’re coming quickly to the end of this podcast. There is so much here. Briefly though I would say this. Yes. Going back to what you said just a little earlier. We hope that couples, during their time together, have the kind of conversations that need to be had. My experience is that, yes, I have met some couples who have developed great conversational skills. However, there is all whole spectrum of couples who have learned to skillfully avoid having difficult conversations.
Clint:
You're right. Conflict avoidance. Yeah, you're absolutely right.
JP:
And over time, and you know this being the married, you and your wife, over time, when you are in a significant relationship you develop patterns, rituals, dance steps. For how you communicate. How you share emotions. For how you deal with the difficult aspects of the relationship, of the conversation. When the couple now enters into the wild and wacky world of wedding planning those patterns, dance steps and rituals are put to the test. The strong ones will see you through. Wherever there is a weakness in those patters, it is going to cause pain and confusion. In terms of dealing with parents, it is such hot button. I’ve dealt with people where - I was just thinking of a couple where the groom's father was a very demanding man. Interestingly enough, in terms of the wedding, had a very big say in how the wedding was going to unfold. He was very demanding with the bride. Eventually she called and asked to see me. In tears she said she couldn't take it any longer. She could not take this man's demands. The groom sat there and he clearly was horrified and concerned for his bride. And he said I had no idea. And she said, “How could you not have any idea?” And he said, “Growing up, my brother and I just learned to ignore him.” She said, “Well, I can’t!” Every family has its own patterns, dance steps, rituals. A lot of times part of the conflict that stands between a bride and groom is one presumes that the other understands what's going on. I will stop here. I could go on and on. … It's just a fascinating thing.
Clint:
You're absolutely right. We should continue this maybe next week at our next podcast will talk more about the stresses that are put on by people outside the couple. I know you have some of my favorite stories of all time. I love them. But it is so powerful - I mean we can joke about it because we’re outside the pain - we can empathize to a certain degree. You know what it is ? It's that feeling of weakness, of helplessness, that I think some people go through because they’re not equipped with the tools. They really feel helpless. So I think that maybe we can look forward to offering solutions suggestions on how to deal with these kind of sensitive issues. But to round out this episode as we bring it to a close, I always suggest that the bride and groom pull back into the two of them. Really begin to solidify exactly who they are. Then start thinking about what this day is in terms of the full spectrum of their marriage. You plan this big day. And you plan and you plan. Then you have the day. Then, there's the next day. And it goes on. That kind of hunkering down and circling the wagons and really reconnecting with the person that you're going to marry. Start with that. Because when everybody else goes away and the wedding is all done and people get their cars and drive away, then the couple goes home. I think that we can get into a little bit more. Especially with your expertise. All of this area and help a lot of people. Does that sound like a good deal?
JP:
I say Amen. Absolutely, Clint. I look forward to it.
Clint:
All right. That wraps up this episode. Remember, you can always find more information on our website. It's Weddingceremonypodcast.com. Old episodes are there. We archived those. You can send us an email, if you'd like. All of that and the show notes will be placed on the website. We thank you all very much and will see you next time on the Wedding Ceremony Podcast.
Welcome to the wedding ceremony podcast this is episode number two recorded on Tuesday, February 11, 2014. This is Rev. Clint Hufft with Rev. JP Reynolds talking about anything that has to do with wedding ceremonies. JP everything good?
JP:
A morning Clint. Good talking.
Clint:
So we were talking before we started recording and there’s so many things in regards to a wedding ceremony that are sensitive. You hope that people will be a look at each other, the couple, and say what’s in their heart and just kind of solidify the commitments. But there's so many complexities that go into a wedding ceremony at times. You mentioned that every now and then will do an interfaith ceremony and some relative will say something very specific about “no you can't have that”. You know what I’m talking about?
JP:
Right. Absolutely. You know, my experience, my background, is unique in that I began all this as a Catholic priest, Roman Catholic priest. Resigned many years ago when my theology become more liberal than the church’s policy. Out of respect for all involved I resigned from ministry and now function as a nondenominational officiant like yourself. It does interest me because I get folks who will indicate that they were raised Catholic, Episcopalian, Lutheran, Methodist, and overtime, especially by the time they hit college, started to fade away from their faith, the denomination of their family. Weddings, I find, revive that old-time religion as it were. It pushes buttons. For instance, I had a bride who was raised Catholic. No longer practiced, did not want a Catholic wedding. A couple months after she hired me she was all upset because her father was threatening to boycott the wedding. because she's not having a Catholic wedding. Now the kicker is her father had been married three times. Her father in the eyes of the Catholic Church only had one wedding. He divorces the bride's mother, married two more times and now is upset the bride is not getting married in the church. I’m thinking, wow. As you know, weddings, people started to have real wacka doo thinking.
Clint:
Yeah people get really kinda crazy. It's like a heightened reality and not everybody thinks clearly. and that concern about what somebody else will think but also I think it's unfair where is somebody kinda says I'm not coming if you don't do this or wear this or whatever the case may be. There’s this loss of of priorities. Most of us would think, how the world could be that important that you wouldn't go to your daughter's wedding? Because she's not doing what you want her to do. I don't know, it's kind of weird.
JP:
I refer to that as emotional blackmail.
Clint:
Yeah, absolutely.
JP:
Emotional blackmail. I have seen it I recently. Just last month I arrived at the wedding, the event planner took me aside and said there’s a few things you need to understand. This wedding was almost called off the night before. The groom's mother decided that after their three years of dating she decided, at the rehearsal, she would inform the bride that she didn't like her, didn’t approve of the wedding and didn’t want the bride’s children to participate in the ceremony. And if they did, she was going to turn around and fly back home.
Clint:
At the rehearsal she said that?
JP:
At the rehearsal. The night before the wedding. The bride and groom lived outside of California. So a lot of people flying in. Now I'm thinking you could not have said this at the airport before you flew down here?
Clint:
That's a three-year window, JP. It's a three-year window she could have said this. This is the mother of the groom?
JP:
This is the mother of the groom. It wasn’t because of religion. It was because the bride had been previously married and had two children. So she was spoiled.
Clint:
Oh man. That's just like the worst word. So now, in my head, this is where the groom has to step up. That's just my thinking.
JP:
Both the bride and groom capitulated. They gave into the emotional blackmail. The children were not allowed to walk in the procession. They did not sit in the front row. They did not present the rings. And I looked out onto the lawn and I looked at 199 smiling faces. There, in the front row, was the one face that was not smiling.
Clint:
Whose face was that?
JP:
The mother of the groom.
Clint:
You’d have thought the kids would've been, you know.. Still, with all of that, she still was Miss Grumpy Face.
JP:
To call her Miss Grumpy Face is whimsically polite. I went up to the photographer and I said to him I presume you are going to Photoshop out this woman from every photo. Over my time I have encountered this where, most especially parents, will offer emotional black mail.
Clint:
Now I understand if the parent is paying for everything. You have all this money or somebody has all this money invested. Then there's this social pressure… I always tell every groom, because I think they don’t always get this, how much pressure a bride feels. It’s peer pressure from a certain standpoint. She's the headliner. Everybody’s coming to her wedding. Yeah, okay, she's marrying this guy but it has a structure to where she feels all this pressure to do everything “right”. So the process of saying well okay I’m gonna have this big wedding and is can be beautiful and it has a bunch of money involved in and the person with the wallet is about to yank out you know back out and not pay for anything or whatever the case may be. Then I can understand where - and I have said this to couples - listen, you have to focus. We mentioned this in last episode. You have to focus on what's really important. What you're feeling between the two of you. Then, figure what's important and what isn’t important. If it’s really important to whoever's paying the money that it be in this venue and they invited 150 of their friends to this event. You just happen to be kind of like a reason why we all get together. And you don’t care then go ahead and do your wedding and and look at each other and have great photos. If you don't care. But there are sometimes with a couple start throwing around emotional blackmail. I've seen the other side of the coin where the parents or somebody really wants to be involved. That's where the bridezilla mentality comes in. It’s me me me me me.
JP:
right right right
Clint:
You and I are pretty lucky in that the type of weddings that we do a lot of this stuff gets filtered out before it comes to us do you find that true
JP:
Very much so, very much so. There’s so many good things you just said there. I wanted to point out, and I've written about this, that a gift is only a gift if there are no strings attached. So I understand about who has the purse strings. Personally it does rankle me when I hear people say my parents are paying for this. And they said that because they're paying for it they now get the right for XYZ. Well, what the parents are doing is not really giving you a gift. What they are doing is they are a corporate sponsor of your wedding. As such they have corporate sponsorship perks. A friend of mine who was a single mother with her only child, her daughter got married she gave her X amount of money. She said, “Danielle, I love you. Here's the money. Do what you want with it. The only thing I ask is that you play YMCA at some point during the reception because it’s my favorite song.”
Clint:
Oh my gosh. I like that mom already.
JP:
I was in awe. I love Becky, I’m a little biased. A very dear friend. But the fact that it was like she said, “you know, I had my wedding. It didn't work out quite the way I wanted it to, but I love Danielle. This is her day. I want YMCA.” There’s a great generosity of spirit there.
Clint:
I agree. What kind of advice do you offer when you find a couple that is facing emotional blackmail? I remember sitting down to a meeting and the mother of the bride had flown all the way from the East Coast. The bride was kind of what you've already described. I always figure by the time they get to the point where they really want to get married, they've had a lot of discussions. They've had discussions about everything that is important to them. At least you hope. Especially what they believe in, what they don't believe in, and if they want to have kids. They've had a discussion about that. You just kind of hope that a lot of them have. Even if they haven't gone through formal premarital counseling, they've had discussions about who they are and what they believe in. So this bride and her fiancé felt spiritual but religion was not their thing. But the mom was very much into a structured religious environment or culture, if you will. My process is I give every couple a huge collection of resources. I let them pick and choose and find what speaks to them. When I sat down the bride had what I call the Ceremony Choices. She had that out and she said, “Mom, just whatever you want. You want more prayers? Doing more Scripture? Just tell me what you want.” There was this cat and mouse game going on in front of me. Which I thought was interesting. That the bride would take that approach. To say, even though I don't believe in all of this and this doesn't feel like who we are as a couple, I’ll do it just so that I get a smile from you, Mom. That conversation was fascinating. Because the mom looked at me, thinking that because of my title that I would back her up 100%. Aren’t you clergy? Of course you think exactly the way I do. I said to her, “I have a different approach, because everybody's spirituality is so unique to themselves. How we connect with the Divine or not. What really is most important to me is that the two of them are extremely happy and they say what's in their hearts during this pivotal moment in their life. However much or little of that kind of religious context is in the liturgy is completely up to them.” And you I could tell her eyes it was kinda like “your pulling the rug out from under me, Mr. Preacher Man.” She actually looked at me and said, “I feel sorry for you that you don't have a true connection to Jesus Christ our Lord.” Then she got up and went to the bathroom. The bride looks at me and she says, “I am so sorry.” She was mortified. I said listen I've been through this before. You don't have to worry about a thing. I understand completely where she's coming from. I understandably completely where you're coming from. I hope you understand what my priorities are. I know that we can find a happy medium and I know it's going to be beautiful. So don't worry about this kind of little petty stuff. It's not that big of a deal. She hasn't hurt my feelings. I know who I am. I know what my faith is. So don’t worry about that. But it was it was quite a powerful moment. I felt really bad for the bride. She was mortified. Then again, it’s not like she just met her mom. She requested this meeting with me in hopes that somehow something would be communicated and smoothed over. I guess sometimes you just have to lay it on the table and and then go from there. You’re a communications expert. I'm sure that you dealt with this stuff many times.
JP:
Oh, yeah, yeah, I saw the weak side of
Clint:
That was such a big sigh.
JP:
Such a big sigh. Actually, Clint, this is a great topic for a future podcast. Because we’re coming quickly to the end of this podcast. There is so much here. Briefly though I would say this. Yes. Going back to what you said just a little earlier. We hope that couples, during their time together, have the kind of conversations that need to be had. My experience is that, yes, I have met some couples who have developed great conversational skills. However, there is all whole spectrum of couples who have learned to skillfully avoid having difficult conversations.
Clint:
You're right. Conflict avoidance. Yeah, you're absolutely right.
JP:
And over time, and you know this being the married, you and your wife, over time, when you are in a significant relationship you develop patterns, rituals, dance steps. For how you communicate. How you share emotions. For how you deal with the difficult aspects of the relationship, of the conversation. When the couple now enters into the wild and wacky world of wedding planning those patterns, dance steps and rituals are put to the test. The strong ones will see you through. Wherever there is a weakness in those patters, it is going to cause pain and confusion. In terms of dealing with parents, it is such hot button. I’ve dealt with people where - I was just thinking of a couple where the groom's father was a very demanding man. Interestingly enough, in terms of the wedding, had a very big say in how the wedding was going to unfold. He was very demanding with the bride. Eventually she called and asked to see me. In tears she said she couldn't take it any longer. She could not take this man's demands. The groom sat there and he clearly was horrified and concerned for his bride. And he said I had no idea. And she said, “How could you not have any idea?” And he said, “Growing up, my brother and I just learned to ignore him.” She said, “Well, I can’t!” Every family has its own patterns, dance steps, rituals. A lot of times part of the conflict that stands between a bride and groom is one presumes that the other understands what's going on. I will stop here. I could go on and on. … It's just a fascinating thing.
Clint:
You're absolutely right. We should continue this maybe next week at our next podcast will talk more about the stresses that are put on by people outside the couple. I know you have some of my favorite stories of all time. I love them. But it is so powerful - I mean we can joke about it because we’re outside the pain - we can empathize to a certain degree. You know what it is ? It's that feeling of weakness, of helplessness, that I think some people go through because they’re not equipped with the tools. They really feel helpless. So I think that maybe we can look forward to offering solutions suggestions on how to deal with these kind of sensitive issues. But to round out this episode as we bring it to a close, I always suggest that the bride and groom pull back into the two of them. Really begin to solidify exactly who they are. Then start thinking about what this day is in terms of the full spectrum of their marriage. You plan this big day. And you plan and you plan. Then you have the day. Then, there's the next day. And it goes on. That kind of hunkering down and circling the wagons and really reconnecting with the person that you're going to marry. Start with that. Because when everybody else goes away and the wedding is all done and people get their cars and drive away, then the couple goes home. I think that we can get into a little bit more. Especially with your expertise. All of this area and help a lot of people. Does that sound like a good deal?
JP:
I say Amen. Absolutely, Clint. I look forward to it.
Clint:
All right. That wraps up this episode. Remember, you can always find more information on our website. It's Weddingceremonypodcast.com. Old episodes are there. We archived those. You can send us an email, if you'd like. All of that and the show notes will be placed on the website. We thank you all very much and will see you next time on the Wedding Ceremony Podcast.