Clint:
Hi and welcome to the Wedding Ceremony Podcast.  This is episode number three recorded on Tuesday, February 18.  I'm Clint Hufft along with JP Reynolds.  In the last episode we got into some pretty juicy stuff.  We realize that it would take at least one more episode to cover it correctly.  Because the purpose of this podcast is anything and everything that's going to help people experience a brilliant… What I say is that I want you to have brilliant memories of your wedding ceremony.  JP, you told a story last week and if you’d do me a favor.  Recap the story and then we'll go from there and and offer suggestions to people and how they can head trouble off at the pass. 
JP:
Right, Clint.  I love that the phrase “brilliant memory”. 

Clint:
Thank you.

JP:
Well, this couple will have blindingly bright memories of their wedding because of the groom’s mother. This wedding occurred this year, 2014.  This is fresh.  The couple live out of state.  They live out of California.  The majority of their guests were flying in from out of town.  I actually had not been able to meet with them at any time in person so all of our planning was done via Skype, which was fine.  We were to establish relationship.  I arrive to the venue and I'm excited to meet them in person.  The planner heads me off at the pass, as it were.  Takes me aside and says there’s some things I need to be aware of.  The first of which is that the wedding had almost been canceled the night before the wedding rehearsal.  Because it was at the rehearsal that the groom's mother decided to finally tell them that she did not approve of the wedding.  Did not like the bride.  Did not like the bride’s children. And if the bride’s children were going to be a part of the ceremony, she was going to turn around and go back home.  

Clint:
Just to clarify, did she say she didn't like their personalities or she just didn’t like the idea that the bride had been married and had kids?  

JP:
I don't think it was the children's personalities.  It was the fact that they were not the offspring of her son.  

Clint:
Okay.  So then what? 

JP:
So even with starting announcements, I’m not privy to the details of what went down between the bride and groom.  My impression is that there was a major flareup because the event planner told me that the wedding came very close to being canceled.  Ultimately, what was decided was that the two boys would not process down the aisle.  Would not present to rings, as they were originally going to.  And would not sit in the front row.  They were put in the third row on the bride’s side.  Out of sight of the groom's mother.

Clint:
That is so cold.

JP:
Everyone who's listening, yes.  I don't know the circumstances surrounding this couple.  I only developed a Skype relationship with this couple.  However, from my perspective as someone who teaches communications, there’s a lot of concern, I think, for how this went down and for how it was handled.  We actually talked, Clint, after the last podcast and we were talking about how this mother…  This couple had been dating for three years.  These were people who were close to 40 years old.  So they weren’t just, you know, doe eyed high school sweethearts.  This mother, over the last three years, had to have given indications of her displeasure.  The first thing I want to say is I think sometimes people think when we get married it'll be different.  Or the phrase, well that’s just mom.  Ignore her.  I would gently say, if that's just mom or that's just dad, gently ignoring her or him is not necessarily going to solve whatever problems and issues need to be faced.  

Clint:
I can see if mom is not a part of their regular day-to-day life then “that's just mom, ignore her”, I can see where that would be relatively safe strategy.   But, in this particular instance, my biggest concern is the kids.  Every now and then - I know you’ve been through this 1 million times - somebody will say there’s a ring bearer or there is a flower girl.  I’ll say, how old are they?  How do you want them included?  Especially in the scenario, kids from previous marriage or relationship.  They want to include the children.  To me the personalities of the kids is the number one priority.   Not everybody thinks that way.  But we’re talking about 20 years of therapy of something goes south. 

JP:
Yeah yeah.  Also, I definitely agree with you when you say if the mother or the father is not part of the daily life, they don't live nearby, I should clarify.  The groom's mother lives in the same city as they do and lives very close by to where they live.

Clint:
Just out of curiosity, this doesn’t have a lot to do with the wedding ceremony, but I'm just curious as to how integrated she is in their day-to-day life.  It sounds to me like not very much.  It sounds to me not very much by her choice.  If she has these kind of resentments.

JP:
If she's not integrated into their daily life then for them to have caved in to her demands, especially regarding the children, I can tell you once you cave in to the demands of a passive aggressive personality they will step it up and they will be unrelenting.  

Clint:
Yeah because to me the unspoken guideline of all human behavior is whatever works.  

JP:
Precisely

Clint:
We need to clarify a little bit.  I don’t think people know your background.  You actually have been teaching communications at Loyola Marymount and now you’re at UCLA.  You do a lot with the corporate world.  Leaders come to you on how to better manage their employees.  So this all fits into the same thing and you’ve spoken before wedding professionals at some big conferences on how to deal with difficult brides.  I think this is a really important topic because I see a lot of people to give up the power.  Like you said, if you give into the passive-aggressive that people give up the power and don't really say wait, take three steps back and look at it from a different perspective.  Because if you are in the middle of it,  you really have to backup and kind of put in its proper context before you can really choose the appropriate course of action. Would you agree with that?

JP:
Oh, absolutely.  When there is a parent, a relative, even a friend who is in what ever way presenting a challenge in the couple's relationship, it's really important the couple talk about how they want to manage relationship with that person.  How they want to address the challenges and not simply brush it aside.  There was a couple where the groom’s father was very harsh and demanding man.  He was very harsh and demanding on his future daughter-in-law.  During the wedding process.  Because it was the groom's parents who were putting up much of the money the father wanted to have a say in every step of the process.  The bride eventually just broke down.  Asked to meet with me with her fiancé. She said she couldn't bear the groom's father anymore.  She couldn't bear his criticism and his harshness and the groom was shocked.  The man was genuinely surprised when he said you know I have no idea.  Years ago I learned to ignore him.  Here's a situation where the couple never really sat down before to talk about what we are we going to do with Papa?  The groom had just learn to ignore the the father and he just presumed that his wife, his fiancée, would learn how to ignore the father.  So, at the very least I would say here’s a very practical rule of thumb.  Presume nothing and make sure you talk things. 

Clint:
It takes a brave person to really face their fears.  In a relationship there so many things that we just say I don't care.  My Mom had great advice.  She said way back, before I even was ready to get married, she said marriage is hard work.  You really have to put in the effort in order that you know the day-to-day things.  Here's another thing.  When you're thinking of marrying somebody take a good look at every little thing that they do that bothers you.  Because 10 years, 15 years from now that little thing is gonna be huge.  It's better if you really face it right now and figure it out before you get into the actual marriage.  There's an interesting dynamic which is kind of like in premarital counseling there are people who are afraid to go through the counseling because they are afraid they won't survive the counseling.  Those of us who are way removed from the relationship or whatever they're hoping to get from the relationship or whatever can say well then were doing you a big favor.  But if you are desperately, you know, if you’re codependent, if you're tremendously insecure, or you don’t think anyone is going to love you or you think this person is perfect and da da da, then I think there's a lot of blinders put on people as they approach the wedding day.  Then the social pressure.  And the financial pressure.  All that kind of stuff comes into play.  There are some people who really honestly… i have you ever heard the phrase -  I’ve heard this more than once - even as I was walking up the aisle I knew this wouldn’t work.  But they do it anyway.
I think what we're really talking about is preventive maintenance.  Insurance companies now will reward the people that have policies if they take care of themselves and avoid healthcare caused by just doing regular day-to-day take care of themselves.  It seems to me that this is the same kind of a deal.  I learned this from you.  Please tell the story that I love.  I’ve repeated this story so many times and probably I've repeated it incorrectly.  Tell the story of the mom in during the ceremony and reservations. 

JP:
Okay.  So, couple, mid-30’s, nice sweet people.  Got married here in Los Angeles, in the Valley. An outdoor venue.  Towards the end of the ceremony I’m preparing to wind things up and the mother of the bride stands up, starts to walk towards me.  I knew she was a widow and I thought, oh maybe she wants to do reading and they forgot to tell me.  Or, maybe she thinks that this is the time to thank everybody for coming and doesn't realize it's at the reception.  So I leave my microphone and I walked towards her.  In a voice only I can hear, she says to me these immortal words: she says, “do not pronounce them husband and wife.  I have reservations.”  And I thought, Sweetheart, do you really think I give you my microphone in turn this into Jerry Springer?  So I smiled and I said the only reservations you better have are for dinner.   Left her in the dust.  Went back.  I have never pronounced a couple husband wife as quickly as this couple.  Afterwards, after all the other vendors were patting me on the back, congratulating me, I find the bride.  I give her a hug.  I asked how she is.  She says to me, “I guess I forgot to tell you about my mother.”  God forbid I should have Alzheimer’s.  It may very well be the last words I ever remember.  I guess I forgot to tell you about my mother.  Everybody knew that Mama was wacky.  She was just plain old nuts.  This was a woman who made it very clear all along that she didn't like the guy.  She didn't want them to get married.  The reason being the woman was not big into other people being happy.  She's kind of unhappy when people were happy.  So what better day than a wedding to try to cause something.  

Clint:
Now, here's the key thing that I took away from this story.  I love the story.  When you told me the story the first time, you then said so from that point forward anytime you met with a couple you included… go ahead and say it.

JP:
I ask them, “Is everybody happy for you?”  I can tell you, as you yourself know Clint, if you ask that question to a couple, it is not uncommon for people to look at each other, smile and say, “well, now that you mention it…” and they talk about parent or grandparent or friend or a sibling or something.  I modify the question also now, which would be appropriate most especially for the two of us, is where I ask, “is there any reality show drama?”  

Clint:
That's so funny.  I took from you and the way I phrase it:  is anybody giving any grief?  Anybody just saying stuff to you about it or anything like that?  You and I are both really lucky in that there are a lot of our business is referral based.  So a lot of our business is the couples of already been vetted. By the time they get to us they've already gone through some sort of an inspection process with the coordinator or the venue or whatever before they get our name.  I think a lot of the high-end venues, coordinators or whatever have decided that their happiness is more important than taking that extra job with the person that’s going to drive them crazy.  We’re very fortunate from that standpoint. I think what were tapping into here that is the take away for this episode is: if you go in with your eyes wide open and you realize… Have you ever had somebody say my dad is an alcoholic and I'm afraid how he’s going to behave?  

JP:
As you are speaking I was flashing on the precise kind of story.  

Clint:
The advise that I give is that open and frank conversation right now because usually they'll meet with us months ahead of time.  I'll say don't wait another second.  Have an honest and frank conversation first.  Start with this.  Always say this whenever you need to resolve a conflict or figure out a solution to something that you think is going to be a problem.  Always start with the following phrase: You mean the world to me.  I am so excited that you’re going to watch me get married.  Here's what I'm concerned about.  And you say,  “Obviously, your behavior the past has been this.  On that day I want everybody there to be happy.”  Because I always say: Everyone wants the bride to be happy but the bride wants everyone else to be happy.  It's very okay for the bride to say, “I want everybody in my wedding to be really happy.  If anybody start doing things that makes other people uncomfortable then it's no longer happy wedding for me.”  I always throw it in the other person's court.  Tell me what you think we can do in order to make sure that everything is cool the whole day long.  Always defer to them first and let the other person see if they come up with specific solutions.  If it doesn't really meet the criteria and it's really hard because when you start a conversation more often than not we already have a something that we’re going to demand of that person.  We already have it loaded in our gun and we’re ready to pull the trigger.  We kind of are just waiting, blah blah blah blah blah, now let me tell you what I want you to do.  It’s really hard to really relax and let that person process, offer suggestions.  Maybe they have a somebody that the the equivalent of a … what do you call the driver?

JP:
The designated driver.

Clint:
Yeah.  Somebody like a shadow or something like that.  It’s not unlike when people said anyone have their dog in the wedding ceremony.  I'm serious.  Because there's got to be a plan B.  Okay, you got that dog coming up here.  You told the story of the dog being part of your wedding.  Awesome.  If the dog starts to get a little frisky, plan B is somebody takes that dog far away.  Everybody kind of buys into that.  So here you have a person who is significant enough to where you want them as part of the wedding.  Maybe not included in the the nuts and bolts of the wedding, like a VIP or wedding party.  But somebody who is important enough to where you want them to be at your wedding.  You need to stay ahead of the game.  I really think and you don't want to say that conversation like the stories that you have just shared with us you know the day before.  “Oh, and by the way…”

JP:
You know, Clint, I love what you’re saying.  I love what we’re talking about here.  What you have just described is, when you were talking earlier about preventive medicine, what I say to people is you want to vaccinate yourself against emotional blackmail.  What you're describing is how to vaccinate yourself ahead of time so as to make sure you don't get trapped in the passive-aggressive emotional blackmail reality show drama that somebody might perpetrate on your wedding day.  You also said that it takes courage to have these kind of conversations.  And it does.  If you and your fiancé can have this kind of a conversation together and then with the person that you have to have it with.  If you can learn how to have that kind of a conversation, you are setting the groundwork for a pattern and ritual of healthy effective communication.
Clint:
Absolutely.  It's like we said before.  You can have a wedding day and and then you have the next day.  

JP:
Exactly.

Clint:
That whole thing about today is the first day rest your life type of deal.  So the thing that we’re trying to share his to go in with your eyes wide open.  Take a big deep breath and have those difficult conversations as quickly as you possibly can.  Now, there are some people who thrive on conflict.  I have had some brides say to me, usually when I offer:  okay just take a look at this and really be a focus on yourself and think about what you want to express any wedding day.  The type of things where I'm just trying to guide them to the best place possible.  You can see in their behavior, in their eyes, that they are just invested in the conflict.  Then there's a point where I have to let go and do the best I possibly can on the day of.  If that's what they've chosen to do.  But I like to address it right off the bat.  Quite honestly, if this comes up during the how-do-you-do, where they meet me for the first time and they’re not really sure if I'm to be there officiant.  I can bring this to their attention and offer some suggestions.  Even if they don't hire me I think that I've made a contribution to the world so to speak. 

JP:
I feel the same way.

Clint:
Because someone invested, it’s that whole thing of we only have control over ourselves, in theory.  We can’t really control the behavior of anybody else.  But we can bring things to their attention.  Then  hope for the best.

JP:
Yes, yes.  If you’ll let me, this is a great time for me to plug one of my books.  I have written an e-book that's available on Amazon called, “How to keep the ‘I’ in ‘I do’”  It's communication tips, tricks and techniques for staying sane while planning your wedding.  In that book I talk about exactly what were talking about now.

Clint:
Oh, that's brilliant.  Okay, they can go to Amazon and all they have to do is search your name? 

JP:
Go to the Kindle section of Amazon and JP Reynolds and they’ll find the book, “How to Keep the ‘I’ in ‘I do’”. 

Clint:
As long as they’re there they can find your other books to, right?  Brilliant.  Excellent. We come to the end of this episode.  Once again reaffirming the fact that there is no end the many facets of the wedding ceremony.  Alright, JP.  Thank you very much and we’ll se you next week.  Thank you all for listening.  Remember, if you want to listen to back episodes or send us an email please visit our website it's WeddingCeremonyPodcast.com.  On behalf of JP this is Clint.  Thanks and Bye Bye.

Clint:
Welcome to the wedding ceremony podcast this is episode number two recorded on Tuesday, February 11, 2014.  This is Rev. Clint Hufft with Rev. JP Reynolds talking about anything that has to do with wedding ceremonies.  JP everything good? 

JP:
A morning Clint.  Good talking. 

Clint:
So we were talking before we started recording and there’s so many things in regards to a wedding ceremony that are sensitive.   You hope that people will be a look at each other, the couple, and say what’s in their heart and just kind of solidify the commitments.  But there's so many complexities that go into a wedding ceremony at times.  You mentioned that every now and then will do an interfaith ceremony and some relative will say something very specific about “no you can't have that”.  You know what I’m talking about?

JP:
Right. Absolutely. You know, my experience, my background, is unique in that I began all this as a Catholic priest, Roman Catholic priest.  Resigned many years ago when my theology become more liberal than the church’s policy.  Out of respect for all involved I resigned from ministry and now function as a nondenominational officiant like yourself.   It does interest me because I get folks who  will indicate that they were raised Catholic, Episcopalian, Lutheran, Methodist, and overtime, especially by the time they hit college, started to fade away from their faith, the denomination of their family.  Weddings, I find, revive that old-time religion as it were.  It pushes buttons.  For instance, I had a bride who was raised Catholic.  No longer practiced, did not want a Catholic wedding.  A couple months after she hired me she was all upset because her father was threatening to boycott the wedding. because she's not having a Catholic wedding.  Now the kicker is her father had been married three times.  Her father in the eyes of the Catholic Church only had one wedding.  He divorces the bride's mother, married two more times and now is upset the bride is not getting married in the church.  I’m thinking, wow.  As you know, weddings, people started to have real wacka doo thinking. 

Clint:
Yeah people get really kinda crazy.  It's like a heightened reality and not everybody thinks clearly.  and that concern about what somebody else will think but also I think it's unfair where is somebody kinda says I'm not coming if you don't do this or wear this or whatever the case may be.  There’s this loss of of priorities.   Most of us would think, how the world could be that important that you wouldn't go to your daughter's wedding?  Because she's not doing what you want her to do.   I don't know, it's kind of weird. 

JP:
I refer to that as emotional blackmail.

Clint:
Yeah, absolutely. 

JP:
Emotional blackmail.  I have seen it I recently.   Just last month I arrived at the wedding, the event planner took me aside and said there’s a few things you need to understand.  This wedding was almost called off the night before.  The groom's mother decided that after their three years of dating she decided, at the rehearsal, she would inform the bride that she didn't like her, didn’t approve of the wedding and didn’t want the bride’s children to participate in the ceremony.  And if they did, she was going to turn around and fly back home. 

Clint:
At the rehearsal she said that?

JP:
At the rehearsal.  The night before the wedding. The bride and groom lived outside of California.  So a lot of people flying in.  Now I'm thinking you could not have said this at the airport before you flew down here? 
Clint:
That's a three-year window, JP.  It's a three-year window she could have said this.  This is the mother of the groom?

JP:
This is the mother of the groom.  It wasn’t because of religion.  It was because the bride had been previously married and had two children.  So she was spoiled. 

Clint:
Oh man.  That's just like the worst word.  So now, in my head, this is where the groom has to step up.  That's just my thinking. 

JP:
Both the bride and groom capitulated.  They gave into the emotional blackmail.  The children were not allowed to walk in the procession.  They did not sit in the front row.  They did not present the rings.  And I looked out onto the lawn and I looked at 199 smiling faces.  There, in the front row, was the one face that was not smiling.

Clint:
Whose face was that?

JP:
The mother of the groom.

Clint:
You’d have thought the kids would've been, you know..  Still, with all of that, she still was Miss Grumpy Face.

JP:
To call her Miss Grumpy Face is whimsically polite.  I went up to the photographer and I said to him I presume you are going to Photoshop out this woman from every photo.  Over my time I have encountered this where, most especially parents, will offer emotional black mail.
Clint:
Now I understand if the parent is paying for everything.  You have all this money or somebody has all this money invested.  Then there's this social pressure…  I always tell every groom, because I think they don’t always get this, how much pressure a bride feels.  It’s peer pressure from a certain standpoint.  She's the headliner.  Everybody’s coming to her wedding.  Yeah, okay, she's marrying this guy but it has a structure to where she feels all this pressure to do everything “right”.  So the process of saying well okay I’m gonna have this big wedding and is can be beautiful and it has a bunch of money involved in and the person with the wallet is about to yank out you know back out and not pay for anything or whatever the case may be.  Then I can understand where - and I have said this to couples - listen, you have to focus. We mentioned this in last episode.  You have to focus on what's really important.  What you're feeling between the two of you.  Then, figure what's important and what isn’t important. If it’s really important to whoever's paying the money that it be in this venue and they invited 150 of their friends to this event.  You just happen to be kind of like a reason why we all get together.  And you don’t care then go ahead and do your wedding and and look at each other and have great photos.  If you don't care.  But there are sometimes with a couple start throwing around emotional blackmail.  I've seen the other side of the coin where the parents or somebody really wants to be involved.  That's where the bridezilla mentality comes in.  It’s me me me me me.

JP:
right right right 

Clint:
You and I are pretty lucky in that the type of weddings that we do a lot of this stuff gets filtered out before it comes to us do you find that true 
JP:
Very much so, very much so.  There’s so many good things you just said there.  I wanted to point out, and I've written about this, that a gift is only a gift if there are no strings attached.  So I understand about who has the purse strings.  Personally it does rankle me when I hear people say my parents are paying for this.  And they said that because they're paying for it they now get the right for XYZ.  Well, what the parents are doing is not really giving you a gift.  What they are doing is they are a corporate sponsor of your wedding.  As such they have corporate sponsorship perks.  A friend of mine who was a single mother with her only child, her daughter got married she gave her X amount of money.  She said, “Danielle, I love you.  Here's the money.  Do what you want with it.  The only thing I ask is that you play YMCA at some point during the reception because it’s my favorite song.”

Clint:
Oh my gosh. I like that mom already. 

JP:
I was in awe.  I love Becky, I’m a little biased.  A very dear friend.  But the fact that it was like she said,  “you know, I had my wedding.  It didn't work out quite the way I wanted it to, but I love Danielle.  This is her day.  I want YMCA.”  There’s a great generosity of spirit there. 

Clint:
I agree.  What kind of advice do you offer when you find a couple that is facing emotional blackmail?  I remember sitting down to a meeting and the mother of the bride had flown all the way from the East Coast.  The bride was kind of what you've already described.  I always figure by the time they get to the point where they really want to get married, they've had a lot of discussions.  They've had discussions about everything that is important to them.  At least you hope.  Especially what they believe in, what they don't believe in, and if they want to have kids.  They've had a discussion about that.  You just kind of hope that a lot of them have.  Even if they haven't gone through formal premarital counseling, they've had discussions about who they are and what they believe in.  So this bride and her fiancé felt spiritual but religion was not their thing.  But the mom was very much into a structured religious environment or culture, if you will.  My process is I give every couple a huge collection of resources.  I let them pick and choose and find what speaks to them.  When I sat down the bride had what I call the Ceremony Choices.  She had that out and she said, “Mom, just whatever you want.  You want more prayers?  Doing more Scripture?  Just tell me what you want.”  There was this cat and mouse game going on in front of me.  Which I thought was interesting.  That the bride would take that approach.  To say, even though I don't believe in all of this and this doesn't feel like who we are as a couple, I’ll do it just so that I get a smile from you, Mom.  That conversation was fascinating.  Because the mom looked at me, thinking that because of my title that I would back her up 100%.  Aren’t you clergy?  Of course you think exactly the way I do.  I said to her, “I have a different approach, because everybody's spirituality is so unique to themselves.  How we connect with the Divine or not.  What really is most important to me is that the two of them are extremely happy and they say what's in their hearts during this pivotal moment in their life.  However much or little of that kind of religious context is in the liturgy is completely up to them.”  And you I could tell her eyes it was kinda like “your pulling the rug out from under me, Mr. Preacher Man.”   She actually looked at me and said,  “I feel sorry for you that you don't have a true connection to Jesus Christ our Lord.”  Then she got up and went to the bathroom.  The bride looks at me and she says, “I am so sorry.”  She was mortified.  I said listen I've been through this before.  You don't have to worry about a thing.  I understand completely where she's coming from.  I understandably completely where you're coming from.  I hope you understand what my priorities are.  I know that we can find a happy medium and I know it's going to be beautiful.  So don't worry about this kind of little petty stuff.  It's not that big of a deal.  She hasn't hurt my feelings.  I know who I am.  I know what my faith is.  So don’t worry about that.  But it was it was quite a powerful moment.  I felt really bad for the bride.  She was mortified.  Then again, it’s not like she just met her mom.  She requested this meeting with me in hopes that somehow something would be communicated and smoothed over.  I guess sometimes you just have to lay it on the table and and then go from there.  You’re a communications expert.  I'm sure that you dealt with this stuff many times. 

JP:
Oh, yeah, yeah, I saw the weak side of 

Clint:
That was such a big sigh.

JP:
Such a big sigh.  Actually, Clint, this is a great topic for a future podcast.  Because we’re coming quickly to the end of this podcast. There is so much here.  Briefly though I would say this.  Yes.  Going back to what you said just a little earlier.  We hope that couples, during their time together, have the kind of conversations that need to be had.  My experience is that, yes, I have met some couples who have developed great conversational skills.  However, there is all whole spectrum of couples who have learned to skillfully avoid having difficult conversations. 

Clint:
You're right.  Conflict avoidance. Yeah, you're absolutely right. 

JP:
And over time, and you know this being the married, you and your wife, over time, when you are in a significant relationship you develop patterns, rituals, dance steps.  For how you communicate. How you share emotions.  For how you deal with the difficult aspects of the relationship, of the conversation.  When the couple now enters into the wild and wacky world of wedding planning those patterns, dance steps and rituals are put to the test.  The strong ones will see you through.  Wherever there is a weakness in those patters, it is going to cause pain and confusion.  In terms of dealing with parents, it is such hot button.  I’ve dealt with people where - I was just thinking of a couple where the groom's father was a very demanding man.  Interestingly enough, in terms of the wedding, had a very big say in how the wedding was going to unfold.  He was very demanding with the bride.  Eventually she called and asked to see me.  In tears she said she couldn't take it any longer.  She could not take this man's demands.  The groom sat there and he clearly was horrified and concerned for his bride.  And he said I had no idea.  And she said, “How could you not have any idea?”  And he said, “Growing up, my brother and I just learned to ignore him.”  She said, “Well, I can’t!”  Every family has its own patterns, dance steps, rituals.  A lot of times part of the conflict that stands between a bride and groom is one presumes that the other understands what's going on.   I will stop here.  I could go on and on. … It's just a fascinating thing.

Clint:
You're absolutely right.  We should continue this maybe next week at our next podcast will talk more about the stresses that are put on by people outside the couple.  I know you have some of my favorite stories of all time.  I love them.  But it is so powerful - I mean we can joke about it because we’re outside the pain - we can empathize to a certain degree.  You know what it is ?  It's that feeling of weakness, of helplessness, that I think some people go through because they’re not equipped with the tools.  They really feel helpless.  So I think that maybe we can look forward to offering solutions suggestions on how to deal with these kind of sensitive issues.  But to round out this episode as we bring it to a close, I always suggest that the bride and groom pull back into the two of them.  Really begin to solidify exactly who they are.  Then start thinking about what this day is in terms of the full spectrum of their marriage.  You plan this big day.  And you plan and you plan.  Then you have the day.  Then, there's the next day.  And it goes on.  That kind of hunkering down and circling the wagons and really reconnecting with the person that you're going to marry.  Start with that.  Because when everybody else goes away and the wedding is all done and people get their cars and drive away,  then the couple goes home.  I think that we can get into a little bit more.  Especially with your expertise.  All of this area and help a lot of people.  Does that sound like a good deal?

JP:
I say Amen. Absolutely, Clint.  I look forward to it.

Clint:
​All right.  That wraps up this episode.  Remember, you can always find more information on our website.  It's Weddingceremonypodcast.com.  Old episodes are there.  We archived those.  You can send us an email, if you'd like.  All of that and the show notes will be placed on the website.  We thank you all very much and will see you next time on the Wedding Ceremony Podcast.

Clint:
This is the wedding ceremony podcast, episode number one, recorded on Tuesday, February 4, 2014. My name is Rev. Clint Hufft and with me is JP Reynolds, star of the survivor wedding. JP everything good? 

JP:
Everything is good, Clint. Excited to be a part of this. 

Clint:
I am, too. I I don't see anything like this out there.  We discussed this at length and what I really like is the idea that our perspective is both biased and unbiased in the fact that that we deal with the section of the wedding industry that I've said for years the doesn't exist within the business.  But for the people that are actually experiencing this life-changing moment it's kind of the most important thing of the wedding day. 

JP:
You know it really is.  My thought is that you can have a great party with a lousy ceremony.  You have a great ceremony, it really propels your guests and your family the party and people realize and understand what it is they're celebrating.  

Clint:
So glad to hear you say that.  There been times where I said to couples, and actually to other professionals as well - and this is where I admit I'm biased - but if if a couple decides to marry each other, I always think that if they then immediately, before they do anything else, because you know all the pressure of: we have to find a place!  I’ve got to get a dress!  If they immediately decide what they want to say to each other in terms of vows and commitments; how do I want to express my heart?  Why I want to do this with you? If they figure out that language first, the very core of the ceremony, then expand out, all of a sudden all the other decisions they want to make in regards to the entire day become a lot easier.  Because they've started with the essence of who they are, not only as a couple but as individuals.  I always say that's the most important part of the ceremony.  Because, number one, that's who we fell in love with.  Number two, that's who you're offering: yourself. And all the little idiosyncrasies, all the little things that they've discussed over the years.  Falling in love and figuring out if they have a future.  All that comes into play when they really commit to each other.  Does that make sense? 

JP:
Right, you know it does, Clint.  And I think my experience in working with couples is that oftentimes people think that if they're not going to get married in a church or temple or synagogue, not sure what they can have.  I think people associate weddings ceremonies strictly with a religious setting and so people come to me and they’ll say, “We don't know what to do. We don't know what we can have. We don't know what's appropriate.”  What I do, and I know what you do, is show people that you can have a ceremony that is warm, gracious and inviting. That honors the, I can say, the sacredness of what you're doing without being religious or denominational.  But my hunch is that people don’t first focus on the ceremony because it's a bit overwhelming.

Clint:
Well, when you say overwhelming I think are you talking about the entire wedding process.

JP:
Certainly, the entire process. But I think the idea of what to do with the ceremony, since we're not getting married in the church, that's what makes it overwhelming.  It's the sense of when and where do I go?  How I do this?  Who do I get?  So that because it’s so daunting, people decided to put it to the side and focus on what I can do.  We just pick out the linens, the venue. Then, as I'm sure with yourself, oftentimes I’ll get couples just a few months out.  It's like we have everything done but we haven't figured out the ceremony.

Clint:
Right. There been many times where I feel like I'm the last person they think of. 

JP:
Absolutely. 

Clint:
They go through all the angst of getting their date and all the other little stuff in between.  Then, all of a sudden, at some point, they look at each other and say, “Wait a minute.  Who's going to marry us?”  In fact I have a feeling when I did the Bachelorette Wedding -  they just had their 10th anniversary - I have a feeling that in the boardroom, amongst all the producers, that was the conversation. Talking this huge television event deal. The site and how they had to transform it.  At some point we can share stories about what actually happens behind the scenes when they get ready for a television wedding.  But it just seems to me that at some point somebody said, wait a minute, who’s going to marry them?  because they aren't affiliated with a specific church or anything like that or or clergy or anybody that would come out and perform the ceremony.  So it was up to the production team to offer them choices.  That's what I was to begin with of course.  How were you found for the Survivor?

JP:
Thank you for the intro regarding the Survivor.  I officiated the wedding for Boston Rob and Amber who just recently announced that they're going to later this year have a fourth child. 

Clint:
Oh my gosh! 

JP:
You said in Hollywood it's all about who you know.   So I had the honor of officiating the wedding of one of the producers of the CBS special for their wedding.  So when they were looking for an officiant the producer immediately thought of me. 

Clint:
We’ve never shared the story before.  That’s exactly what happened with me.  I married the producer and there you go.

JP:
Welcome to Hollywood. It is is an interesting conversation because again, much like yourself, the couples who come to me - I would say 40 maybe 50% of the couples who come to me - want no mention of God. The people who were raised in some religious tradition and have now on just faded away from from whatever their their religious roots were.  And because they want a ceremony that is authentic they they don't want to be in a religious setting.  They don't want to have religious overtones.  When first I meet with a couple, the first question I ask them is is there anything you know you do want, anything you know you don't want in ceremony?  Anything that you’ve seen that you thought was lovely?

Clint:
I do exactly the same thing.  So neat to hear you say that. 

JP:
The number one answer is: 1. we don't want anything long and then,  2. we don't want any mention of God.  If they’re not religiously affiliated.  Number three is they can look at each other in the same way you know we really had a chance to talk about this. I'm not sure and oftentimes then what can we do? Again and again people are so influenced by what they see on TV.  By movies with weddings.  It's that sense of that has to be a certain way.  What you and I do is remind people that we can create a ceremony that is not cookie-cutter. 

Clint:
Although there are there are couples that…  Two things that you touched on.  The first thing is  why somebody wouldn't want anything that has to do with religion or God.  I think it's because they both may be deeply spiritual or raised in a particular religious tradition but because it's not the same they're afraid of conflicts within the families. So they would rather just not go there at all.  They may both be deeply religious but it's just not gonna work for them, you know, I mean in terms of “can we please have a happy day? Please?” Sometimes you run into situations where people have their own agenda and it has nothing to do with the bride and groom.  So I totally get that.  Every now that I’ll say  you can add like a flavor of your heritage or something that won't speak to anything religious and it's all good.  The thing that comes to mind is for people who come from a Jewish heritage and stepping on the glass.  There's nothing that's going to get in the way in terms of liturgy. So that's kind of a happy medium.  Whenever I use when one person within the couple is is Jewish.  But I I like the idea that nowadays people are looking from so many different places.  Because they feel a little bit more freedom.  If they come to us, were both nondenominational officiants in Southern California, and if they come to us that means they don't belong to a church or a temple.  Where it's just a given that whoever is their clergy is gonna perform the ceremony.  Which means then you play their ballgame.  I have a great guy that lives a few houses down for me and he's a Rabbi.  Not at a temple.  He heads up the Jewish studies at school.  But it people ask him to perform the ceremony.  We have conversations and he's amazed at how flexible I am.  I tell people nondenominational really means everything.  But it makes sense if they come to you they already understand who you are.  There's a structure and you're going to do things within the liturgy of the ceremony that has been done forever within the customs and heritage of the Jewish traditions.  They just know that you play your ballgame.  For him the food has to be Kosher.  But if they come to us there really is kind of a blank canvas.  I agree they don't know.  Because they’ve never had that conversation.  We've done this a 100 million times.  They're going into this thing - but they also carry the emotional burden of everything that’s important to them.  That just adds to the “I can't see the forest for the trees” type of a scenario. 

JP:
Right.  Right. 

Clint:
That's one of the joys that we carry in what we do in that we have this climactic moment which is the ceremony and the kiss and we've had that self-satisfaction of guiding this couple to a moment that hopefully they'll remember forever.  As being like one of the best moments in their entire life.  But it takes a certain skill set, wouldn’t you agree, that you really have to understand what it is on so many different levels. 

JP:
You know a ceremony is very interesting form of public presenting.  Because as an officiant you're playing to two different audiences.  Because your words are, yes, addressed to the couple but you have all of these people sitting behind the couple who are something more than just spectators.  I think what the officiant has to do is address both the couple and their family and friends.  The real trick is to, in gentle ways, bring family and friends into the ceremony.  So as to remind them why they're there.  And they’re there and not just for the Crate and Barrel gifts (which are very nice) or Pottery Barn, but they are there because this couple wanted them to bear witness as they said their vows. 

Clint:
Yes and no. You cannot guarantee, considering who controls the guest list, there's not a guarantee that the bride and groom is going to be emotionally connected to every single guest that's been invited.  Can I tell you a story?  

JP:
Of course.

Clint:
I’m having a meeting with a couple.  I don't know where he was from originally, some other country, and he came to America.  The typical story of an immigrant comes here and becomes incredibly successful.  He and his fiancée were both real estate agents and they specialized in really high end homes.  Mansion type, fancy-schmancy type of deal.  Out here in Southern California there are different pockets of areas that are in big-ticket items.  So they had a house and they knew they wanted to get married and they needed to sell the house.  They looked at each other and said how about if we kill two birds with one stone.  We want to get married anyway.  I want to show the house off.  Let's invite every single person we know and have the wedding at the house.  I said okay.  How big is your guest list?  They said about 350.  You and I both officiated ceremonies where within certain cultures they invite the whole village.  You can have everybody up to their weddings.  I've heard stories of 500 600 people at a wedding but in this particular case he looked at me and he said “Now, having said that, I'll be honest with you.  I would say at least three quarters of the people that are coming I couldn't care less about.  We just want to show off the house.  It's worth it for us to  invest in the wedding.”  I said okay, well, if that didn't exist it was just the two of you what would you do?  He said “I would take her to the beach because we love the beach and that's one of the things we have in common, and I would look at her and into her eyes and I would tell her how much I love her and how much I have to be with her for the rest of my life.”  I said that's what I want.  That's what I want.  I want you to imagine that happening between the two of you and were going to put that in the ceremony.  Because the reality is those people are just lucky they got invited on so many levels.  While you may have an ambivalence towards most of them socially, emotionally let's not forget that this moment is really between the two of you.  And here's the beauty of it.  A wonderful byproduct of you focusing on the two of you and really saying what's honestly in your heart with integrity and really having a true moment.  They can't help but get sucked in even if they don't know you.  To see this moment that quite honestly is primal you know what I mean? 

JP:
Yes. 

Clint:
We want to be in love.  We want to love somebody.  And they read books and they see movies and they listen to songs.  It's all about falling in love.  Hopefully finding your mate la la la la la.  So here they see the two of you speaking honestly from your hearts to each other and you've accomplished something that you didn't really intend.  Number one, They feel connected to a truly human moment.  Number two, they’re really happy and it just happens that they’re now associate that happy feeling with the environment which is the house that you want to sell.  So I said you really want to focus on what's happening to the two of you and I guarantee you that is what is gonna make this really special for the two of you after the house is gone.  You couldn't care less about it it's all about your wedding and your moment.  I know that what you just described for Rob and Amber's wedding is you focus on the two of them no matter what's happening with the television production.   I was able to think were the reasons that that Trista and Ryan connected with me and chose me to be their officiant is because that's my process.  No matter what else is going on.  You guys build the ceremony with my guidance and it becomes honest between the two of them.  I was really happy that at the 10 year anniversary ABC show the recommitment of their vows which they did really intimate back in Colorado.  Ryan used the personal vows he had written to her in the original ceremony 10 years ago.  He said it's as true today as it was then.  From our perspective - I always tell people the officiant has the best seat in the house - from our perspective there is nothing better than a couple that truly connects to each other and if we give them the vehicle by which they can do that - and in future episodes of our podcast we’ll talk about everything that's connected to the ceremony in terms of the people, not only that the wedding party and the professional wedding vendors and and the families- we’ll talk about logistics in and what makes it good and what got the way and every thing possible in order to make sure that connection between the bride and the - well nowadays between the two people getting married - is so strong and nothing breaks it.  I'm really looking forward to that process as well. 

JP:
Absolutely Clint.  I’d just  quickly ask did the house sell?  At the asking price? 

Clint:
You know I never followed up on that.  I know, I know, it's so funny and thought of that until you asked me that question. 

JP:
That's the bottom line there. 

Clint:
Well it was the true bottom line but it wasn't my priority so I guess I never even give it a second thought. 

JP:
I would say though, and we are running at the time now, that certainly is a great story that you just told. The real estate story is in some respects the exception to the rule I think it's interesting to in some respects contrast that with Trista and Ryan's wedding along with Rob and Amber's wedding because when I was brought on board for Rob and Amber's wedding the producers said to me this is a wedding first and a TV special second. 

Clint:
No greater words could've been said to you. That's awesome. 

JP:
Another way of putting that for someone who’s wedding is not being broadcast on TV is that the focus is on creating magic and not on the perfection of it.  I think if people focus on the magic of the day, on the magic of the ceremony, rather than obsessing about perfection, they're going to bring their wedding dream to life.  And so there you have it.

Clint:
I agree 100% and, as we wrap up, that's gonna be kinda like the guiding light through all of the episodes of this podcast.  The magic of the ceremony.  How to create it and how to keep it intact and how to be able to tap into it every time you think about your wedding ceremony.  We’ll get into all of those aspects later.  The beauty of this is that there really is no end to the different facets of the wedding ceremony that we’ll be discussing because there's a constant evolution. We find new venues that have their own idiosyncrasies and we find new products that help couples communicate to each other in terms of what they're creating.  We have wedding professionals that will at some point be guests on the podcast.  I’m very excited.  We’re going to help a lot of people plus the every time you and I get together we does make ourselves happier.

JP:
Absolutely, Clint. Wonderful, and very very excited.

Clint:
All right, JP.  We’ll bid ado to everybody and look forward to our next episode.  Take care.