#281
Clint Hufft  0:00  
Hey everybody, welcome to the wedding ceremony podcast. We talk about anything and everything that has to do with wedding ceremonies. This is episode number 281, recorded on Tuesday, August the fourth 2020. My name is Clint Hufft. And with me is a gentleman that, well, I don't know if he's excited as I am, but I'm really excited. The one and only J.P. Reynolds.


JP Reynolds  0:23  
Clint, as always good to be with you. Good to be with the gang.


Clint Hufft  0:31  
Yes, indeed. The gang, the wedding ceremony gang. There's somebody, I think it's Rabbi Marc who calls us the the WCP.
Yeah, W right wedding ceremony podcast the W CP. So shout out to Marc for that. JP is an accomplished author. His books are in the Amazon store and in the Kindle store, and Amazon is a communications expert. That website is the business of confidence calm his wedding website is J p r weddings.com. Mine is ReverendClint.com or Clint Hufft.com for all the things that I do. Well, the internet is sometimes the gift that just keeps on giving.
I first came across this video that has gone viral. My sister who is an officiant up in Reno sent it to me. And then Rabbi Marc sent it to us. And you can you can Google it. It's “angry mother in law.”
And man, where to begin? First of all, if you don't mind, JP I'm just going to kind of set the scene. It's a wedding ceremony, but it is definitely not at a high end venue. It looks to me like, sometimes a congregation or church will move into like a multi purpose room. And that's what it looked like to me. There was a little bit of a step up a little bit of a, what would be the altar, but really, it was just like, like a, I don't know what they call that but where you have the regular floor and then you have like, not even 12 inches 10 inches maybe at the end of the room that is kind of like a faux stage sort of thing. So it looks like a church had gone into that environment and there was a wedding and the bride in a white dress and groom in a suit. And I couldn't really even see the officiant but when the video begins, you hear the voice of the groom's mother. And correct me if I'm wrong JP but the first thing that I remember is “don't don't say my son has flaws.”


JP Reynolds  3:00  
Right.


Clint  3:08  
Yeah. So you now I know what you want to get to. But it was such a reveal for me when they finally panned over. Okay, first of all, let's just start with that. What do you remember about the beginning and how it starts?


JP Reynolds  3:23  
Well, I have to tell you, I know that people who have emailed us are waiting for me to channel my mother. I have to tell you though, about this video. I actually found it very hard to watch. Because I think this is such a horrific, ugly video. Yes, the internet is the source of gifts that keep on giving. But I think it's emblematic of an aspect of wedding industry where people love videos of horrific moments in weddings. And there is so much unsettling about this video. Right? And I know what you're referring to, because my comment to you was the what the mother. It's a bizarre setting. It looked like a it looked like a rundown Rotary Club conference room. And you know that carpet smelled. Okay. And then you pan over to the mother and she is wearing shorts. She is wearing shorts to her son's wedding.


Clint Hufft  4:49  
and it looked like she was on her way to Walmart. It really did.


JP Reynolds  4:53  
I guess. Yes, it looks like she was just stopped off on a trip to Walmart or Trader Joe's and the anger, the anger in that woman and the hatred in that woman I found really hard to watch. It is about as ugly as ugly can get. And I want to know why. 
This video is like two or three years old and I just posted by the bride’s sister. I'm thinking sweetheart, why are you posting this video? Why would you want to show the world this horrifically bizarre, embarrassing moment? It’s I just think we are in such an exhausting period in history. I’m just like, OMG.


Clint Hufft  6:16  
Let's dive into this because I saw a lot of things. You know how sometimes you'll see a video online and you make a snap judgment or, the headline for the video will what in a court of law they would call it leading the witness. So the headline it kind of starts you down an emotional path as you begin to watch the video. It's almost like the headline of an article. Once you get like two paragraphs in you realize the headline has nothing to do with the actual content of the article. It's just clickbait. 
I didn't even see a title for this video. My sister sent it to me. I clicked on it. I didn't know what to expect. There's a wedding. But the first thing I noticed JP, before they panned over to the mom was the bride and groom and how they reacted, you hear this voice off to the side.
“Don't talk about don't say my son has flaws.” And I can only imagine what preceded that was the personal vows and “even though we have flaws, we work together“ and whatever, right?


JP Reynolds  7:26  
You take him with all of your flaws, and yeah,


Clint Hufft  7:29  
Something like that. Yeah, but when the mom spoke up off camera, the bride says “you can leave” like immediately. And I thought, oh, there's a deep history here. But what really triggered it for me was when the groom turned around and said, “just leave”.
And then that became what was what was passing for a dialogue. With the added thing that the mother said I paid for that dress. And I thought, a writer would would take all of this and create a two hour movie with the whole backstory leading up to this ceremony, right? And the fact that the bride and the groom were equally as, how can I put this, I don't know what the right adjective is, but aggressive, like they were ramped up like immediately, which tells me that they've already had so much interaction with this behavior. And it's a deep trigger for them, especially on their wedding day. So it's easy to point to the mother in law as the villain. But it seemed to me the the the dynamic between the three of them was everybody was culpable. Does that make sense?


JP Reynolds  8:54  
Well, I'm not sure, yes. I would say though, it's not an issue of who was culpable? I think you're absolutely right. That there was no surprise. Everybody was shocked by her outburst. I think though, if we interviewed everybody the next day, they would all say that they were not surprised that the mother did what she did right now. 
Over time when people are in a significant relationship, they develop patterns, rituals, dance steps for dealing with strong emotions. And this son and his mother, have a lifetime history of patterns, rituals and dance steps for how they communicate. The daughter in law has developed that the son and daughter This is the son and daughter and what's Together, I've developed patterns for dealing with the mother. And all of those patterns are, as displayed in this video massively dysfunctional, massively dysfunctional. And, spinning this around for the purpose of this podcast, which is focused on the ceremony, focused on officiants. That is why it is so crucial for us as officiants to do our due diligence in those initial interviews with a couple and that's why I always ask a couple, is everybody happy? And who is not happy and where are they going to be seated in the ceremony? And this was obviously a wedding where there was probably minimal involvement between the officiant and the couple, but this is the kind of thing that you want to in the interviews, identify, ideally? And then how do you vaccinate the couple? How do you vaccinate the ceremony from that kind of toxic behavior?


Clint Hufft  11:19  
There have been a couple of times where I've talked to a couple and it seems as though they are so used to drama, interpersonal drama, that even though it's going to be their wedding, they talked to me in anticipation of this person saying this or that person saying that. So in regards to this video, even if that conversation had been had, it seems to me, as if the adrenaline rush of feeding on this drama was so, I was gonna say inbred, and that might be true too. But it was so ingrained and then there's a certain point most… Okay, let me back up. When I tell people what I do, that I'm a wedding officiant, I perform wedding ceremonies, the response almost always is, Oh, that's great. Everybody's happy. And my answer to that is you hope, because not necessarily.
Whatever is the fight just because it's a wedding doesn't mean that, everything all of a sudden becomes touched by a fairies wand and it's all good.
it's a fascinating thing, but yet, I do remember having a conversation with a bride specifically. And she was explaining to me what she anticipated in terms of this person's behavior or that person's behavior. And I said, you get to make a choice. If this is what you think they're going to do based on behavioral patterns leading up to that Wedding Day, then you have a choice of what you're going to focus on.
Because, almost all the time, JP, I know that you have the same experience where “my parents are divorced”. How do they get along? Well, not that good, but they'll be civil on the wedding day.


JP Reynolds  13:20  
Okay.


Clint Hufft  13:21  
As long as it's on the table, as long as everybody sees it with their eyes wide open, oh, yeah. Then all we can do is make suggestions. But, you know, essentially, it's up to them.


JP Reynolds  13:31  
Well, it's all on a spectrum. So it's my parents are divorced, but they're civil, that my parents are divorced, and they would be too embarrassed to cause a scene. My parents are divorced, and we're going to make sure that they have no contact with each other at the reception. And you keep going down the line. I had a couple where it was, our parents are divorced, and we've hired security to sit In between them in the first row. 


Clint
Really? 


JP
Yes, we've hired security. Yes. A plainclothes security person was hired to sit between the mother and father in the first row. So that he looked like, maybe he could be a cousin or a child or whatever. 


Clint
And you did that ceremony? 


JP
Yeah.


Clint Hufft  14:26  
Did you recognize the plainclothes person as what they were? I don't mean out loud.


JP Reynolds  14:31  
I mean, well, I saw a man sitting between the mother and father. So I presumed it was the plainclothes person. Yeah.


Clint  14:40  
Usually what I recommend is the the couple do a seating chart, especially for the for the rows,


JP Reynolds  14:46  
You know, this is the couple. Again, it's about the issue of what people are focused on and what they think the day should visually look like. And for the bride, it was tradition for the parents to sit in the first row. I want my parents to sit in the first row. And the parents should sit on the appropriate side. That's the focus of her attention. So that's why they hired the security.


Clint Hufft  15:31  
What I usually say is if you're going to do if they're divorced, then you got to put people between them, you know, family members, whatever.


JP Reynolds  15:39  
That's what I mean by vaccinate. So you're absolutely right. When you said earlier that there were some people who thrive on drama. Yeah, psychodrama. And that was what was on display here. That's why this video I found to be so horrific is because that this was simply a typical day In the life of this family. This was not a special day, this was just family drama at the Elks Lodge, alright? It becomes the air they breathe. And people forget that they don't have to live with the drama. And so the question is alright, if you know that your mother or your father, has the potential for causing a disturbance. Is that what you want? Do you want a disturbance? No, I don't want them to disturb my day. Well, if you do not want them to disturb your day, then let's come up with a strategy of containment. And sometimes that means you need to recruit a trusted relative whose gift to you is on your wedding day keeping a sharp I on mama, papa, Grandpa, whatever it may be, so that it if there is trouble, they can immediately intervene and whisk this person away.
Meaning, if like for instance, I had a couple where the bride's father was an alcoholic. And he was an alcoholic who was not regularly making an effort to remain sober. And so it was always a crapshoot as to whether he was going to be drunk at a family gathering, or if he was going to be sober. And with the pressure of the wedding, the bride was very nervous that he was going to get drunk. So I said, Well, You've got to identify somebody, that person has to be with him throughout the day. And if he indeed becomes drunk, he needs to be whisked away. He needs to be just squirted away by that person.


Clint Hufft  18:19  
There's a website, Quora.com. And the whole idea is people asking for advice. And it's huge. It's a huge website. It's free to sign up and you can go in and you can put in the things that you know something about. And anytime you want to you can ask a question. And so I'm listed in there and all the questions I get are all wedding related. A lot of them I ignore because they they come from other countries and they deal with things that I'm not really an expert in. But one woman, I don't know her background, but she said what are the things that couples who are planning their wedding Don't know They don't know? 
I listed a couple of things. And then I said, and if there is any family drama, they need to deal with it right now. They can't wait. If they want something to be different on their wedding day, then they have to start dealing with it differently right now. 
So in this particular case, the other thing is, I'm very curious, right? There's all kinds of different motivations for the way why human beings do things. It seems to me that every human being wants to feel important. And sometimes they manifest that as a martyr, where they're always the victim. And sometimes they manifest that as a bully. Sometimes they manifest that in really positive ways. You know, just to be the best they can possibly be. 
But I would imagine there's also an aspect of the couple saying the world is going to see what we've been dealing with. And most of us would say, Yeah, but you want to do that on your wedding day? Is that really the memories that you want?


JP Reynolds  20:14  
Well, I'm not sure that I agree with that claim to actually win because the world is not going to know about crazy Mama unless you post it to social media. 


Clint
Oh, I met the world meaning their their community. 


JP
Oh, but if you look at the video, it was a very small gathering. And I presume the people who were in that room knew about the mother. This was not a large wedding. This was this looked like a very small wedding. I couldn't tell how many guests were there. Just because, yeah, it's, it's also the other issue is okay, so two things based on 2% is number one, how you communicate during your wedding planning. how you're going to communicate after the marriage license has been signed. And another aspect that was said that this video is that if you look at the groom's nonverbal, he simply slumped. Yep, in the face of the outburst of his mother, that man, that that it was that man's responsibility to deal with his mother. The fact that the bride was the one who snapped and went after the mother, mother in law speaks to again the dynamic of how that son simply receded. And that's going to present that dynamic, that dynamic is going to present challenges for the couple, if it hasn't already done so.


Clint Hufft  21:58  
Well, it's possible that That groom married his mom. That's a possibility.


JP Reynolds  22:03  
Well, that's that's true, too. Yes. That is very true. That is very true. And and I give you a fist bump on that.


Clint Hufft  22:13  
Yes, yes. Yes. Um, the one thing that I am incredibly curious about is how the mom kept saying, I paid for that dress. I there's a backstory there that I'm fascinated with, if we've talked about all these interpersonal dynamics, right, and the obviously the antagonistic relationship that they have, and Is that true?
Is it true that the bride's dress was paid for by the mother in law? That is fascinating to me, that I don't care about all that. I mean, I agree with you. It's painful to watch and I really would rather not, but I am curious about that. I am curious about that. One thing. What did she mean? And is it what we think it is? Like she paid for that dress and how did that happen?


JP Reynolds  23:01  
Right. Right no it's it's from start to finish. It's it's a tough video because it is. It is just dis-functionality on display at full glory. I will be shameless in my plug because you're always so good about reminding folks in my book How to officiate a nondenominational wedding ceremony but they have also written a another book entitled, how to stay sane while planning your wedding and it's 25 tips for how to communicate effectively while planning the wedding and the couple didn't read it before their ceremony. I agree.


Clint Hufft  23:55  
Well, JP, I love that you have these books that are available. And it's that whole thing about you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink that whole thing. Right. But I do think I guess the cautionary tale is all of these conversations need to be had. And the officiant needs to broach the subject, so that we do the best we can. That's really all boils down to.


JP Reynolds  26:52  
I just think that there's more to being an officiant than signing a marriage license and throwing together a ceremony. Getting to know your couple. It's not simply the story of how they met. It's really about, who is this? Who is at this ceremony? What is the ceremony about what is the dynamics? And it's a very tricky nuance thing. And I'm not saying that doing what we typically do, would have been able to prevent that outburst?


Clint Hufft  27:56  
No, those are decisions far beyond us,


JP Reynolds  27:58  
However, with due diligence, it could have been a less emotionally violent experience. Yeah, we would hope we would hope well, it if if we had, if you engage in honest, hard, crucial conversation with the couple and it's about, it's about having those hard conversations. All right. This is the situation with your mother. We have to come up with a strategy. And this this couple. This video shows what happens when you go into a potentially emotionally high stakes scenario and you have no game plan. And things just happen. Yep. Yep, absolutely.


Clint Hufft  29:06  
I still feel like there's so much but that's enough for right now. Would you agree with that?


JP Reynolds  29:12  
Oh yeah. Yeah, no The world is the world is coming to an end. So it's like whatevah.


Clint Hufft  29:24  
that's what I was waiting for, whatevah. 
That's what this is all about. We talk about things that have to do with wedding ceremonies and we talk about you know, the ups and the downs and the and the whacker dues. And if you would like to be part of the conversation, then it's really simple. Email us, go to our website, wedding ceremony, podcast comm and click on the email us button and just join in the conversation. And you also can subscribe to our podcasts now. Just so you know on that same website wedding ceremony, podcast, calm all the episodes are right there and they're archived chronologically so the most recent ones at the top. But if you want to make your life really simple, then just subscribe any, any podcast app that accesses the Apple Store, then you can click on the subscribe button and every time we post a new episode, it automatically comes to your world. Remember the books this is so apropos today. Remember the books that JP was referencing, they are in the Apple store now I'm sorry, they are in the Amazon store and in the Kindle store in Amazon. And just so you know for communications coaching and as you can see JP is an expert in that. The website is thebusinessofconfidence.com. The wedding website is JPRweddings.com mine is ReverendClint.com or ClintHufft.com for all the things that I do. Once again, thank you to the incredible musicians that play our theme music, the Da capo players. dacapoplayers.com. That's it for this episode of the wedding ceremony broadcast. This is Clint and on behalf of JP We will see you next time.

Clint  0:01  
Hey everybody, welcome to the wedding ceremony podcast. We talk about anything and everything that has to do with wedding ceremonies. This is episode number 280. recorded on Tuesday, July the 28th 2020. My name is Clint hufft. And with me is a gentleman who has discovered Netflix, the one and only J. P. Reynolds.


JP Reynolds  0:21  
I have Clint. I have discovered Netflix, it opens up a whole new world.


Clint  0:27  
You can get lost in that world. I'll tell you that right now. It's a never ending pit of entertainment.


JP Reynolds  0:37  
I hear you.


Clint  0:39  
JP is an accomplished author. His books are in the Amazon store and in the Kindle store in Amazon. He is a communications expert. That website is the businessofconfidence.com. His wedding website is JPRweddings.com. Mine is ReverendClint.com or ClintHufft.com for all the things that I do. 
JP, I have started putting transcriptions of our episodes up on our website.
So just for everybody who's listening, you can go to WeddingCeremonyPodcast.com and if you click on other information, they'll have transcripts there. So for those of you that are curious about that, great. 
I have started two other podcasts, which makes the total of six now but they they are divided into categories like you and I do this one, which is obviously my favorite. And you know, when we talk about ceremonies, No, I'm serious. This is my favorite. There's no doubt the other ones have their own purpose and And that sort of thing, but this is, by far. Oh my gosh, I look forward to this so much. 
Anyway, the the other two that I've just begun, my next door neighbor is an Orthodox Jew. And he is a great guy has a very successful in advertising and that sort of thing and, he's invited me over for Shabbat dinner and we've talked about just stuff and I said, You know what? You're telling me stuff that, I grew up in a pretty fundamental Christian environment and I studied the Bible a lot. But you're telling me stuff that I had no idea. I had no idea that this even existed in Numbers or Deuteronomy or Leviticus or whatever it is. And so we've started the podcast and the name of the podcast is the Jew Next Door Podcast.


JP Reynolds  2:44  
Ah ha ha ha.


Clint  2:48  
And he's great. I asked him I say, Okay, tell me about what is kosher. And what is this and why did you then and and we go back and forth because he kind of has lived in that world his entire life. And so I'll say thanks. And he says, Wait a minute, what is that? And so we've discovered this kind of back and forth thing that's really really cool. And, and it's just really a lot of fun. That's the Jew next door podcast. 
The other podcast is Spiritual Cake Podcast. And that's with a wonderful person and a very successful event planner down in Orange County, Wendy Dahl. Spiritual Cake Podcast, and it's exactly what you think it would be. We have we've been talking for a while about things that interest us. She grew up Mormon. And there's a lot of things about that I don't understand. And then, because we're both in the event industry, we have interacted with people of all different faiths and cultures and philosophies, traditions, theologies, and we just talk about things and it's not a definitive thing. It's an exploration of everything that we think would be in the spiritual realm. We get really into the base things that people do. And sometimes we kind of explore other things. We had a whole episode we talked about meditation and prayer. And it's been fantastic. And that's the spiritual cake podcast. And I just wanted to introduce that to our audience and let them know that it's out there.


JP Reynolds  4:19  
Oh, wonderful, Clint. Wonderful. Congratulations on those. Those two new endeavors.


Clint  4:25  
It's a lot of fun JP. What that brings me to today's well, launching point, because yes, you and I both know, we begin. We don't know where we're gonna end. So Wendy, who is an event planner, including weddings, and she does a lot of multicultural things. She really specialized in the South Asian market, where and they do huge weddings right there. It's she said the biggest wedding she's ever done was 1100 guests. So we're living in a different world now. But she got a call for a date in October and It's a guest list of 150 people.
And I said, How does that work?
I mean, considering the pandemic and the quarantine and all that stuff. How is that going to work? Then she said there's a hotel, a resort in Orange County that has figured it out. Because they do big weddings. They've done those multi hundred guests list weddings, and they have a big lawn where they do ceremonies and they have huge ballrooms. And so first of all for the ceremony, they're gonna have 150 people, but they figured out a way to socially distanced people so that they can observe the wedding ceremony, but not be crammed in together. Does that make sense?


JP Reynolds  5:46  
Did she describe the the logistics of what that will look like for the ceremony?


Clint  5:54  
I don't know the exact like formation of the chairs of the seating arrangement. But it's my understanding that they won't be the traditional single aisle and a row of chairs. 
I saw a concert. It was a comedian. This is on Netflix Just so you know, my gosh, we're gonna start getting emails of all these things on Netflix that you're supposed to watch. But it was a comedian and they set up the chairs in clusters, because they figure if people arrived in the same car, there's no reason to distance them. So the chairs were in clusters of 2,3,4 together, but spread out from each other. And that's how they did the seating arrangement. So I could only imagine this is just a phone call that that Wendy got. They haven't gotten into the nitty gritty of how they're going to actually do all this, but the resort has done this. And they figured out a way to make it work so that they live by the guidelines. And there's different guidelines depending on what county you're in, in regards to how People can gather and so on and so forth. 
And she said, and this is something that intrigued me because I was a DJ for a long time and I DJ’d at a ton of weddings and bar mitzvahs. The tables are going to be spread out not that many people are going to be at the tables, but they're going to set up like four dance floors around the room. So people can dance, but they're not going to be all crammed into one big mob. Right? And I thought, Oh, the idea of different dance floors. I think that's a good idea. 


Anyway, what it said to me, the joy that I found in it is that when there's a will there's a way. Where these constraints have been put upon us. But if we have a little imagination, and we really assess the, What do they call it the things that we have available to us, the assets that we have available to us, then usually there's a reasonable solution to whatever the challenge is. Does that make sense?


JP Reynolds  8:06  
Yeah, I'm just kind of lost in my thought here and it because it's it is. It is fascinating. And the reality is that the wedding industry as an industry is going to have to make an energetic commitment to experiment. Because nobody knows there's there's no blueprint going forward. There's a lot of desire to go back to what was but this is this is a call and a summons to, to creativity and it's about How to reimagine what a gathering looks like. And what this couple is doing and what Wendy is guiding them with is we want to approximate as much as possible. What a contemporary traditional wedding celebration looks like. on there are other there are other ways of celebrating with large people in the sense that you know, I read of one couple who however it was they decided to have 1010 groups of people during the course of six months, host them for different themed dinner parties. So that they’re getting married
in a while they had their wedding celebration, their ceremony in front of parents and siblings. And it was zoomed. And then to share it to celebrate their commitment. They spent six months going from dinner party to dinner party, and each dinner party had a different thing. Based on whoever was hosting the dinner party.


Clint  10:32  
Imagine what that would feel like, where you are a celebrity for six months. Wherever you go, whenever you show up. You're the reason people gathered and they're really happy to see you. Yeah, wow. What would that feel like? I would say less than point 00 1% of humanity knows what that feels like, no matter where they go, you know? Oh my gosh, that is really cool.


JP Reynolds  10:57  
You know, so that that's how they Have they reconfigured what it was to have a wedding celebration? It's, it's, um, this weekend. On Saturday I did a backyard mini wedding for the couple was in the backyard of the bride's parents home. It was the couple. And it was 20 people. And they had hired me to do to officiate their wedding. This coming August. They then postponed their blowout wedding to next August. And then they circle back and they said, you know, we just don't want to wait a year to get married. And so they had this intimate celebration on on Saturday, and then we're going to have another ceremony next August or whatever. But I feel like you know again, it's another way of quote figuring it out. And I said to them let's just think of this as a year long celebration that kicks off in your parents backyard and culminates at a lovely resort in Santa Barbara next August. And you know, that's that's where we are right now is people having to be having to really look inside themselves and Sarah, what's up? Do I want what what do I want my celebration to be about? And taking the core elements and and creating something that we're really not familiar with.


Clint  12:55  
I always believe in the silver lining, you know, to every challenge to every cloud where Something might Oh, I can't do it the way I want to do it, I'm really frustrated. But then then the enough time elapses to where you can process it and realize that there are opportunities to experience things that you otherwise never would have been giving yourself the opportunity to. And, and I like the like, there's a guy that I know who's a travel writer, and he married a woman, and then they have gone to, I think, 30 different countries long and and gotten married. So they obviously were already married before they left the country, but they went there and had wedding ceremonies in the tradition of that culture wherever they were. And he said, the wonderful byproduct of that, especially for his wife, who's not a travel writer, I think she's a I'm not sure exactly. She's very much involved in social media and motivation and that sort of thing. But for her, he said that he recommit himself to her no matter where they go every single ceremony there's an honest recommitment to the marriage. Which I think, isn't that spectacular. And so, which makes me think of, you know, people talk about when they come to me and they'll say, Well, if we get legally married, we're worried about, you know, what, what is the wedding day going to feel like and I and I always tell them, it's going to be, it's gonna feel completely different. Even if you're already legally married, when you look at each other in that environment where you're dressed up and you have, you know, the people that you want to watch. And you recommit yourselves to each other. It's going to have this deepness. You know, that that, I don't know, that's the way it feels to me. Like, I'm just imagining, well, I've been through that scenario, but the thing that you're just describing where they got legally married, but they're imagining next year, they're going to have a big wedding. And when they look at each other, and all of a sudden, it reminds me of the movies where where the camera will zoom in for a close up on a person or a couple, and the rest of it all kind of fades away goes out of focus. So you really I concentrated on the two people in the moment that they're having. That's the way I feel about a ceremony. If the couple decides that they're not performing, but they really are connected to each other, then they get to reaffirm and and have that spark. Again. Does that make sense?


JP Reynolds  15:18  
Oh, absolutely. And you know, in terms of the couple that you just spoke of, I know that you interviewed them on one of you or any podcast, and they were in the news. It was what a year ago year and a half ago.


Clint  15:36  
Well, that's a different couple. That's a different couple. Oh, this is this is another couple. Okay.
Yeah. Well, but this guy did interview those two people. They were amazing. They should be married by now.


JP Reynolds  15:47  
Okay, but with either of those two couples, either both of those couples, you know what's now remarkable is it will be years before any other couple can do what they did. Simply because of the pandemic, and simply because, as Americans, there aren't a lot of countries that are going to let us in, in their borders. So what those two couples did is now you know, sets them in the, in the wedding books. And it was another way of you see, it's there's two paradigms here. One is the traditional where boyfriend where we're dating books now we're engaged. Oops, now we're married. And it's, that sense of a hard definition in the change of the relationship. And it's when you're going to get married. When you're going to get married, when are you going to get married. And, so in with that mentality, that wedding day takes on a paramount importance because Ah, finally now you can, quote, start your life together. But the other way of looking at this is, is what I say to couples is that your wedding gives thanks for the past, celebrates the present and blesses the future. Oh, that's beautiful. And, that, therefore, you're celebrating, not the oh now we're finally married. you're celebrating the life that you have created it together, and the promise and we're celebrating the promise, your promise to continue to create a life giving life. And that's a different kind of so you're celebrating something different there, because it's more holistic. And if you have, I think, that belief, then it really can influence how you create celebrations celebrations that you create.


Clint  18:05  
Well, the thing that's contingent there is the attitude of the couple on what they're experiencing at that moment, depending upon which phase they're in, you know what I mean? And it's tough because


JP Reynolds  18:15  
yeah, all of this is determined by how a couple understands who they are, and what it is that they're doing. Absolutely. My niece has been with a fellow now for, I don't know, six years, whatever, they live together, and my brother is very upset. And he says that my niece is simply is he's very disappointed, not married. And he says, she's just a surrogate wife. 


Clint
What? I hope he doesn't say that to her. 


JP Reynolds
Yes. Oh, of course. Yeah. She does. Just she's asleep. surrogate wife sees a surrogate wife. And I think that's a great title for like a TLC lifetime series “surrogate wife”.
You like Sister Wives, you'll love surrogate wife?


Clint  19:15  
Well, I told you that one of the TV shows that I've done for weddings, you know, as an officiant, it was called hitched or ditched, and the whole concept. This is a 2008. And the whole concept was a couples that have been together for a long time, but they hadn't gotten married yet. And so then it was kind of like, they would apply under, not necessarily clear premises. But then they'd get a knock on their door and they say, you know, they're already living together and they say, Hi, remember that thing you audition for? Are you signed up for whatever? Well, here we are. And there's a there's a camera crew, looking at them and recording the entire experience. We know that you've been together for a long time, but for some reason, you haven't set a wedding date. We're curious about that. So here's an invitation to your wedding in seven days or six days. And now we're kind of curious as to why you haven't set a date. So let's find out. But, but they had a date. And that's where I showed up because they, you know, after they'd gone through interviewing everybody that the couple knows for six days, and finding out what are all the you know, and then of course, reality drama, it's edited so that it's dramatic, and then stressful and whatever. And then they, they show up and they get in front of me, and I say, all right, do you want to get married? And we had six episodes, and four of the couples got married, which is great. And then two of them did not, which is great because they shouldn't. And but it was that same kind of a thing. I don't know if you go through this. But I really have to bite my tongue when a couple says that. They've been together for a long time. And I have to resist the idea of, well, are you starting to make plans now? You know, like, so what's going to happen and it's none of my business, but I can't help it. I just, I just that's what goes on inside me. It takes a lot of mental discipline, anguish, if you will, for me not to say out loud, so you're going to get married.
And then if they're engaged, I will allow myself to say if you set a date, and if they say no, and
I do it, then I just have to just let go.
You know what I mean? Even though I want them to set a date, and I want them to let me marry them, but But yeah, I just have to let it go. That also reminds me of kind of like what your brother's going through with the circuit. That's funny. Because I remember when I first started, you know, way back over 20 some years ago, there were a couple people that just assumed that a wedding was this thing, xy and z, this is what a wedding is. And then as you and I have experienced through all the, you know, the years that we've been doing this, a wedding isn't necessarily X, Y, and Z, you know, every couple brings kind of like their own vision to whatever the wedding is supposed to be. And, and it was a transition. When somebody like me comes along and says, well, not necessarily that's not what the couple ones There was pushback like, what that's what's supposed to happen? well know, what's supposed to happen is that they're supposed to do what they want. So, and it was a transition. And it was a cultural transition from the beginning. It's much more,


JP Reynolds  22:13  
I think, and I would say, Clint, that that that is where we are in the beginning of a cultural transition of understanding how we gather to celebrate the life and love of a couple.


Clint  22:35  
I love that a couple that's doing the over six months ago, and I just love that.


JP Reynolds  22:40  
Yeah. And there's a book I want to highly recommend to anybody listening, who is in the wedding industry who is in the event industry. This is a book that everybody should read. And I may have mentioned it before, but let me emphatically mention it now. The book is called the Art of Gathering. And it is written by a woman whose name is Priya Parker. Priya Parker is not an event planner. She is not in the wedding industry. She is. I forget what her what her graduate work was in. It might have been sociology or anthropology I forget. She actually is a business consultant. But this book really examines what the title suggests, which is, you know, how do you how do you meaningfully gather to celebrate pivotal moments in a person's life a couple's life, a family's life, a company's life. How how do you how do you gather? And how do you what do you do when you gather and she's been on national programs book is a best seller. She has a great research resource filled website. I bow before this woman, I love this book. And this really is what's happening. We are at the beginning of a cultural shift of understanding how we gathered to celebrate. It will only be successful if we approach it with creativity, ongoing generosity, ingenuity, and an openness to to explore. What is it that we're celebrating.


Clint  24:58  
The other thing is How do we adapt to the logistics of the situation? Like, I know that you've done ceremonies in the round, and you probably have felt what I have felt where there are certain parts of the ceremony where you have to address the guests directly. Most of the ceremony probably, talking directly to the couple is appropriate and actually serves the romantic purpose of the ceremony. But there are times where you’ve got to look at the guests. And, if you're in the round, there are people behind you as well. And it's a struggle for me to figure out that ratio of how much do I address? You know, when I'm speaking at a particular point, I've got a paragraph that I've got to say, How much do I do I physically address everybody in the entire circle? Have you gone through that?


JP Reynolds  25:48  
Well, okay, You're speaking to the underlying issue of of What is your approach, my approach, any officiants approach to understanding what is this gathering all about? What is the purpose of this gathering and I now understand more fully than before that I am tremendously influenced by my experience of having been a priest. Because a Sunday Mass only makes sense within the context of community. It is a community that campus and I, I call the community to to worship. And so, for me, and we've talked about this before, and we do, I think, very interesting shading in our approaches is that for me I am the voice of the community that has gathered around this couple. So I suspect that I actually spend more time talking to the guests because I'm caught on summoning them to bear witness. So what this couple is doing. And for me, the wedding ceremony is an act of doing that the couple are gifting each other with their values. And the community is bearing witness. So it's all about the doing. It's not about lecturing on what is a marriage. It's not about getting bogged down with rituals and symbols that clutter up what the Vows are about. It's about witnessing the giving of words. And so, whenever I can, I will bring the gathering into the sermon, in my comments to them. 
And that's why I continue to have theological, anthropological, wedding-logical issues with a couple who told us before they turned their wedding into an open event. They invited prospective buyers and real estate agents and it's like, now you can't do that. And I understand that. I can't do it because it's their wedding in their house. But this is where I find now that I've done a couple of these, call them whatever you want to call them, intimate weddings pop up with things, many weddings, I'm fascinated by how I'm falling in love with the under 20 wedding, because it just stripped everything away. It just corrupts it all away. And, and it just is that it's the essence of what this couple is about. And I'm finding it to be more powerful than then than ever before.


Clint  29:38  
I agree 100% which is why I think that no matter how many guests are invited, if we can create that sense of intimacy that you're you know, that we experience with the really small weddings, the micro weddings, if we can create that sense of intimacy with with a couple and communicating directly with each other. That even if you Got 1000 people if they're observing that, and in my opinion, they can't help but emotionally gets sucked in because of the authenticity of the moment. I always strive for that, you know what I mean? I understand. Okay. I think I understand what you're talking about in regards to speaking on behalf of the guests, did I understand you're like, you represent. Yeah. Okay. So but there are certain moments where the guests want the intimacy between the couple, and that's where the transition kind of lies in regards to where your focus is. Right.


JP Reynolds  30:41  
Well, that intimacy between the couple. That's what I am summoning a gathering to bear witness to the intimacy so it's not going to To speak to the couple and I'm going to speak to the audience I'm going to speak to a couple of them speak to the audience. It's always me, reminding the audience that they are witnesses to the intimacy that's being created by the couple in that moment. Well, that feels to me.


Clint  31:17  
Like there is that transition of where do we direct our energy, our spoken words, where do we direct them? And there is that balance of explaining to the guests what's happening. And then it happens. I think it's similar to what you said in terms of the doing, you know what I mean? There's a setup, and then there's the the deliverance of the moment. So I think we're talking about basically the same thing.


JP Reynolds  31:46  
Right, I think, yes, yes, I would just say that I never want the audience to feel like they are at a theater, watching a performance.


Clint  32:11  
But there is a theater, a theatrical, to a ceremony.


JP Reynolds  32:13  
Ceremony is drama. All ceremony is rooted in trauma. So yes, we're all part of a drama as it were. But I don't want the audience to feel like they can sit back and think about what they mean to buy at the grocery store after this is all over that they are so present. 
You know, I had a couple one time tell me that. A couple of guests told them that afterwards that that they put their phones down in the middle of the ceremony, because they wanted to listen to what I was saying. And it's like Yes, thank you, madam, thank you for putting your phone down. That's what you're supposed to do. You are supposed to listen and bear witness. That's a tremendous come here. Oh, JP has been bled emotionally distant from all of this, and you can do your grocery list within a ceremony. You know, the ultimate hope is that people are riveted on the couple. There's no perfection. There's no purity is no totality. But that is what what you're aiming for.


Clint  33:37  
Right on that we completely agree. Yeah, absolutely.
By the way, that was a huge compliment for people to get so attracted to what you were saying that they they decided to change their focus. That's a tremendous compliment,


JP Reynolds  33:53  
No, I was very, I was Thank you, Jesus. But again, let me say to folks, you must buy the art of gathering by Priya Parker. I don't know the woman. I don't get a kickback on the book. 
This is what Wendy is experiencing. Wendy is experiencing what everybody is experiencing now all of the event planners is we are at the beginning, or at the beginning of a reimagining of what a wedding celebration can look like. And it's a very exciting time in that regard.


Clint  34:41  
I agree. I agree. And then some people can look at it with grief, and other can look at it as a rebirth. Yeah, I absolutely agree with all of that. And I will put the name of the book and I'll look it up and and I don't know if I can put a link in there, but at least I'll put the name of the book Can the author in the show notes so people can reference that? Oh, well, there you go. JP, I think we have, we've done what we set out to do. Amen. By the way, listener, if you ever expect us to articulate what we actually set out to do, that's never gonna happen. All right, everybody. There you go. Remember, all of our episodes are archived on the website that I referenced earlier in the podcast, wedding ceremony. podcast.com. The most recent one is at the top, they're all chronological. There is a big button there that says email us and that is how we want you to reach out to us. ask us a question tell us a story. Or bring something to our attention perhaps that needs to be you know, needs to be included in the next episode. Wedding ceremony podcast comm click on the email us button. Also remember that JPS books are in the Amazon store and in the Kindle Store and Amazon for communications coaching that website is the business of confidence calm, his wedding website is JP our weddings. Calm mine is ReverendClint.com or ClintHufft.com for all the other things that I do. We would like to once again thank the incredible musicians that play our theme music that are capo players da ca p o players.com. That's it for this episode of the wedding ceremony podcast. This is Clinton on behalf of JP We will see you next time.

Clint  1:26  
Hey everybody. Welcome to the wedding ceremony podcast. We talk about anything and everything that has to do with wedding ceremonies. This is episode number 279. recorded on Tuesday, July the 21st 2020. My name is Clint Hufft. And with me is a fine, young, Strapping Young man, the envy of all who watch him. Oh, JP Reynolds.


JP Reynolds  1:44  
I thought we had a special guest today.


Clint  1:54  
We do, it's you, JP. JP is an accomplished author. His books are in the Amazon store to the Kindle store in Amazon. He is a communications expert. That website is TheBusinessOfConfidence.com. His wedding website is JPRWeddings.com. Mine is ReverendClint.com or you can go to ClintHufft.com for all the things that I do. 
JP, we received a wonderful letter. It was actually a Facebook messenger. I don't know the proper way to say that. I don't know how you conjugate messenger. But it's from Crystal of Northern Michigan wedding. She's a wedding officiant in northern Michigan. And I wonder she gives her website as well. Maybe I'll get to that. Anyway. Maybe that is the website Northern Michigan wedding officiant. So she first of all gives us a compliment.
I thought this was really really cool.
Quote, I especially love it when you and JP don't always agree and you respectfully disagree. I'm a fan of standing your ground when necessary changing when it's called for


JP Reynolds 3:06  
That was lovely. That is lovely.


Clint  3:11  
Oh, really well, then I don't agree.


JP Reynolds  3:14  
Why have a podcast where everybody agrees? And it also speaks to the fact that there is no one way of doing any of what we do.


Clint  3:38  
You remember back when we started, I mean, like, the very first episode, and there was something where we recorded and then when we were done, you said, Oh, I wasn't sure I wanted to say whatever it was X, Y, and Z. And I said, No, JP, that's great. We don't have to agree. In fact, the podcast will be better if we offer different viewpoints and different ways of going about things. And from that moment on, we've been mortal enemies.


JP Reynolds  4:07  
You know, Clint, it's easy to disagree with you because I know I'm right. So yeah,


Clint  4:15  
I guess so. I tolerate whatever is coming out of your mouth because you know, I live in the land of always victorious. 
Well the other thing that besides complimenting us, which was lovely Crystal is helping to put together a video that she wants to put up on social media of officiants encouraging people to wear their masks to keep everybody safe during the pandemic. And so later today, I'll be doing a less than one minute suggestion that people wear their masks. She said that she saw one that was done by a bunch of DJs. I don't have a website for that, but it was it was just what you would think it would be. It was like this DJ with a mask on and this DJ with a mask on. And that sort of thing. And so it'll be interesting to see what the officiants come up with. But anyway, I thought that was lovely. And I really want to thank Crystal for reaching out to us and giving us that lovely compliment. I think that's fantastic. Great.


JP Reynolds  5:12  
Yes. Thank you, Crystal.


Clint  5:14  
Now, you told me before we hit the record button that you did a wedding yesterday.


JP Reynolds  5:20  
I did. And it was I you know, the third time is the charm. This couple had pushed their wedding three times. And with each postponement, it got smaller. And so if you hear that sigh it's because it's just it's, I'm not even sure where to begin. 
First of all, it was great seeing people again, like the photographer, the DJ, event planner, were people that I've worked with previously. And it's just, Ah, good to see you, man. What I thought was amusing was that everybody, myself included, was kind of like walking around muttering to themselves, what am I supposed to do next? And everybody was like, rusty. Yes, maybe it really was just it's like, I think I need to make a sound check. Sound check. Right, right. Let me and I don't think I had anticipated feeling rusty personally and to see everybody else a little rusty. It was an interesting experience. 
It was at an outdoor venue. Everything was going to be outdoors, cocktails, dinner, the whole shebang. There was nothing done inside except for getting ready for the wedding. It's an interesting visuals to begin with 50 people were invited. And I would say between 30 and 35 showed up. That's like 15 to 20 people just bailed. Right? And I think it speaks to the reality of people's deep seated uncomfortable now. Right now, and, among wedding professionals and the talk of wanting to get back at cetera, et cetera, is everybody in every aspect of the country is saying it's not going to happen with a snap of fingers. 
A very strange visual to see people walk into the venue, majority of whom are wearing masks. You know, to see 20 plus people milling about in masks is just an odd sight. And we're just not used to seeing that. Then there were people who did not have masks and it was indiscriminate, in terms of age, gender. What I found unsettling, was that in terms of the setup for the ceremony, and especially the setup for the dinner. There was no accommodation in the least for social distancing.


Clint  9:21  
Oh, really? Like, ten top tables, that sort of thing, just like the normal tables.


JP Reynolds  9:27  
Well, it was done on what do you call it? Country style, family style, so it was two long table arrangements, parallel to each other. It's like rustic country. And the chairs were just right next to each other. And, what was interesting in terms of this for the ceremony, people started taking chairs out of formation and bringing them away from how it had been set up. People were creating their own social distancing. And I thought, well, if you're doing that for the ceremony and there's at least a little bit of room, then I don't know where you're going to sit for dinner because the dinner was set up like it was a wedding last October. 
And now all of the professional of the the team, the vendors, everybody wore masks. There was a sense of palpable caution. If not comfortableness for myself, I wore a mask up to the beginning of the ceremony, just until the ceremony began. I did not wear a mask in the ceremony. But I did specifically ask the event planner to make sure that the arrangement where we were going to be standing myself and the couple, there was no wedding party, that there was plenty of room for me to step back from the couple. I didn’t ask for a full six feet distance. However, this is a venue where I've officiated before and the last time I was there, I was squished, uptight with a couple and I wanted to make sure that that was avoided. 
You know, sometimes you're in a venue and logistically, you're just on top of the couple. I said I do need space so that when they're speaking their personal words, I'm able to step back. 
I think you can tell just from the how I'm describing this, you can tell I'm still mulling this over because I think for me, it's a snapshot of the long whole challenge we who are in the wedding industry are going to face and the challenge that couples are going to have to face in terms of how this celebration looks.


Clint  13:00  
I think perhaps even more important is how it feels. Because you're obviously dealing with the feelings about what you experienced.


JP Reynolds  13:09  
Right. Well and the feelings are generated from the visual, and the logistics of it. Ah, now this was a sweet couple. I had never met them in person and only had one face time call with the bride. Very low key, very easygoing. 
But, as I say, professionals who in the good old days, give them a high five everybody's scurrying about doing their business. Everybody was feeling their way. Everybody had their own safety issues and had to make their own adjustments. 
For instance, the DJ, when it gave me the mic, he gave me into the mic check and I took the mic and he said, Oh, man, I'm so sorry, I don't have a sanitizing wipe for it. I meant to bring one I forgot. I laughed. I said, I've dealt with your germs before. I think it'll be okay. But it's these these little things that we had never had to think about before. And found myself in terms of the ceremony now part of the challenge was really had very little interaction with the couple Far less than what I normally would want to have and would be comfortable having. But, in putting the ceremony together, I did find myself looking for places where I could edit it down. So as to reduce the amount of time that I'm talking. And even they're talking. Because less talk, less spit.


Clint  15:43  
That's going on the T shirt. We got that. My gosh, that's great. Let's talk less. I love that.


JP Reynolds  15:49  
I don't think we've had our 2020 t shirts. So yeah.


Clint  15:56  
Oh, that's it. That's, that's the Numero Uno. With a bullet,


JP Reynolds  16:02  
I also have to say it follow up to Crystal's public service announcement. So, while there's a lot that has changed, I do still have the aura. Alright, for those of you who have been listening for a long time know that well will not be surprised. I'm about to tell you. 
So the ceremony is over. And I'm, like, just wanting to get out. And I'm looking for the event planner to say goodbye to her. And suddenly, I find myself in front of this woman who kind of has walked over to me. And I'm thinking, Man, I love this. I like everything. I don't have an ego but she came over to tell me how she enjoyed the ceremony. Is it? Oh? Yeah. 
“Ah, I just had to take it off. It is so uncomfortable.” 


Clint
She had to tell you. 


JP Reynolds
Yes. Also, I'm gonna presume she's referring to the mask but she didn't really say what the it was that she had to take off.


Clint 17:23  
That's right. 


JP Reynolds  17:26  
The tone is like, ah, I had to take it off. It's just so uncomfortable. And it's like ma’am  I'm not from Homeland Security. You must remember I just I'm the officiant. You can take off as much as you want because I'm taking off.


Clint  17:50  
Oh, the beauty of the English language and all the different ways that you can say taking off.


JP Reynolds  17:54  
I thought oh, it's nice to see that some things don't change.


Clint  18:05  
Are you referring to the wackadoo?


JP Reynolds  18:07  
I am. I am the just stand there minding your own business and let people tell you what they're going to tell you. So yeah, so I applaud the PSA. I would just say that this woman is creating her own calendar, PSA. wedding guests to come up with a PSA.


Clint  18:37  
Well, a couple of things come to mind and oh my gosh, this we're gonna get a lot of feedback on this one. But the first thing is, I love that sense of community. I had a friend when I first started officiating. It was a buddy of mine that was an incredible guitarist and he moved up north and he married a woman that was an officiant. In fact, she helped me get started. She came up with the phrase of “your wedding your way”. I thought that was great, huh? 
Anyway, we were shooting the breeze about weddings. And he said that what he loved is that when they were going to get into the car, because typically they would work together where she would officiate, and he would provide the music for the ceremony on his guitar, and he would say, I wonder who our family will be today? Meaning that that feeling of familiarity with the people that you work with on a regular basis, right, and he always said it always felt like a family like that the wedding family, the team, if you will. I thought that was really cool. Because you said that you see familiar faces, and there's just this sense of comfort. Hopefully, that oh my gosh, yeah, it's going to go well, because we're all professionals and we understand each other's rhythms and yeah, this is gonna be great.
The other thing about being rusty, I identify with that 100% Because you know how we typically have like a real offseason, December to February type of deal, right. And sometimes it'll be a month before I have to fill out a marriage license. And I got to really concentrate. Because, when you do it on a regular basis, then there's a rhythm to it and a familiarity and that's fine. But when I haven't touched a document in a month, I have to really think hard. Okay, now what goes in this box? What am I supposed to do here? Yeah.
But there also is something interesting about how there's a saying in business where the market will show you what needs to be done. 
First of all, it's a little interesting and a little disappointing that the venue or the caterer or whoever was in charge of the seating arrangement didn't take into consideration the the current climate, in terms of social distancing. And I'm guessing you did not stay for dinner. So you didn't see exactly how that played out.


JP Reynolds  21:05  
No, I did not.


Clint  21:07  
Yeah. But I like that people began to pick up chairs and move and kind of like, redistributed themselves appropriately. I saw a concert. It was a comedian's concert, during the pandemic and it was interesting, because the way they had chairs set up, was to understand that people who are together, we don't need to separate them because they came in the same car and so that the chairs were set up in groups of two, three and four, but they were kind of spread out, what, that six feet between them right? And I like that. There's something comforting about people begin to take the chairs and redistribute them so that they could have that social distancing. And I would be curious to see whether or not that played out over the meal. But I am a little disappointed in the venue that they didn't take that initiative. Although having not been privy to the conversation between the venue and the client, maybe the client says we don't care, because there are people in America that have that attitude that nothing is wrong and whatever.


JP Reynolds  22:16  
Absolutely, to what you've just said. And you know, it's interesting. A lot of colleges and I presume other public institutions when they're considering putting in walkways. Oftentimes, we'll wait until they see what the foot pattern is from the beaten down grass. And that will determine where the walkways should be placed. 


Clint
That makes sense. 


JP Reynolds
That one of the challenges going forward. If you go to Instagram and I know you do, Clint, because you have graciously liked some of my photos, right? When you go to Instagram there are a lot of throwback photos. It's interesting how a lot of the vendors are posting anniversary photos because they don't have current weddings. So it’s a beautiful image of a wedding from a year ago or five years ago. And you look at the the seating arrangement for either the ceremony or at the reception or you look at crowds milling about it happy faces milling about a cocktail hour, whatever it might be, and those images reinforced memories of a time passed. And there's going to be this struggle between those images and wanting to recreate those images and the reality of people taking their chairs and eating in the parking lot. All right, maybe that last one is a little bit of an exaggeration. Maybe not the parking,


Clint  24:23  
The thing is? I don't know if anybody else who's listening to this have the same reaction I did. But there was actually like, yeah, that could happen.


JP Reynolds  24:30  
It's, I think, an emerging challenge for all of us, is reimagining how we can do what we do. My concern is that people are going to say, all right, so the age of small weddings is here. And okay. I'm going to specialize in 15 weddings or less. And what I'm going to do is I'm going to take those Instagram photos and miniaturize the experience but replicate it. So for instance, yesterday it was the country seating instead of having five long country tables, we're only going to have two because we only have 50 people. But the reality is those chairs are as tightly placed next to each other as they were last October, and I maintain, it just is not going to be accepted by a significant number of guests.


Clint  25:53  
I agree. It's going to play out the way it's gonna play out. The same thing happened when some of the restaurants and bars opened here. They had people that came in hoping for some sense of familiarity and sameness. But the reality is a lot of people decided not to go. Right. Because people get to make their own decisions.


JP Reynolds  26:13  
And again, let me quickly say, because I know we're running out of time. It's a big country, the United States, a lot of political tension and controversy over something as simply simple as wearing a mask. Right. So I'm talking about a couple at a venue in Southern California, and all these issues that I'm talking about. Maybe somebody's listening in another part of the country, wherever that part of the country may be and saying, nope, we we don't have any of that problem. We've got our mask-less guests. Happy with a October 2019 Kind of wedding setting. But that also points to the fact that going forward there's going to be I think the challenge of dealing with regional and attraction is fractionalized understandings of whether a royal wedding looks like and feels like.


Clint  27:29  
Well, I think fortunately for us because of the job that we do just that simple part of us and the couple, there's some modifications, like you said, you had some distancing and that sort of thing. And I know that there are some officiants here in Southern California that absolutely insist on wearing a mask and insist on the couple wearing a mask and insist on the guests wearing masks and, everybody kind of has their own way of going about dealing with this pandemic situation. But I still like the idea that what we do and the essence of it is going to stay relatively the same In regards to how we interact and what we present for the couple and us, guiding them across this threshold. It’s going to be interesting to see how it plays out in terms of the industry, because I think what I've seen is that couples who are not going to spend the same amount of money because they don't have to pay the catering bill for that many people. Still, now they have, in their minds, excess money, and they're going to kind of elaborate on some of the accessories. So it'll be interesting to see how this plays out in terms of the industry and, what vendors will flourish, so to speak, that's relative. And as we go through this whole thing, it'll be fascinating. Right? Well, there you go, JP. So let's recap.


JP Reynolds  28:41  
Let's talk, let's spit.


Clint  28:48  
T shirts in all sizes. All right, there you go, everybody, that's the way this works. We talk about anything that we want to talk about in regards to wedding ceremonies, and we invite you to join in on the conversation. You can email us. Go to our website at WeddingCeremonyPodcast.com and click on the email us button. We check that every day. 
Or you can reach out to us on Facebook the way Crystal did. Either way we would love to hear your questions, your comments, your stories. It's all part of the deal of wedding ceremony podcast. Remember that all of our episodes are also archived on that very same website and they're all chronologically listed. The most recent one is at the top. You can also find our episodes in the Apple store and I think we're also in Spotify. Anyway, wherever you find a podcast, and you can click on the subscribe button. I highly recommend that. That way every time we post a new episode it'll automatically come into your world. Remember JP’S books are in the Amazon store and in the Kindle Store and Amazon. For communications coaching TheBusinessOfConfidence.com. JPRWeddings.com or ReverendClint.com or ClintHufft.com for all the things that I do. Thank you again to the incredible musicians that play our theme music, TheDaCaPoPlayers.com. That's it for this episode of the wedding ceremony podcast. This is Clint and on behalf of JP We will see you next time.

Clint:
Hi!  Welcome to the Wedding Ceremony Podcast.  We’re in double digits.  Oh, my God.  

JP:
Happy Anniversary, Clint.

Clint:
Thank you so much.  We are recording on Tuesday, April 8, 2014.  You know, JP, I'll be honest with you.  When we first started this we thought that we would never run out of things to say and that has proven to be true because every time over the last few weeks I've said to myself, okay, let's talk about the XY & Z and we don’t even come close to it.  Because we go off on a side note.  But it's still incredibly valid.  I really have enjoyed the way we have explored the dynamics.  It's interesting how deep you can go.  I guess, maybe because it's people, how deep you can go with what happens during the wedding ceremony.  

JP:
Very much so. Very much so.

Clint:
Also the getting ready for.   Have you noticed on the wedding day how relieved everybody, everybody, I mean, the bride and groom, especially the families, wedding party, the guests, especially the wedding professionals, how relieved they are the second that the ceremony is concluded?  It's a miracle.  Like 500 elephants are off of everybody’s shoulders.  I wonder why that is?  I always talk about how there's this little sliver of time and the emotional content and all that kind of stuff but I've heard wedding coordinators, the best of the best, say if I can just get them down the aisle then the rest is cake. 

JP:
I just had a planner say that to me.  I always say to couples, all I need is for you to get down the aisle and everything else is on my shoulders.  

Clint:
Actually, I'm glad you phrased it that way.  Because what I want to talk about this week is the little things that have caught us by surprise over the 20+ years that you and I have both been doing this.  Just to be clear that's 20 years each.  I probably should do a little bookkeeping right now.  What do you call it when you start a meeting?  You can see JP at JP Rweddings.com and I’m at ReverendClint.com.  Remember our website which is WeddingCeremonyPodcast.com.  Right there on the homepage is a big button that says “email us” and that's how we find out what you want.  So by all means.  And I want to give props to the wonderful group that's been providing our music.  It's the DaCapo players.  It’s D-A-C-A-P-O players.  You go to DaCapoPlayers.com and hear the beautiful music.  They're fantastic.  They have been our intro and outro music.  Right, so, little things.  Little things.  I always say that if you if you talk to somebody who hasn't been in business for a long time they don't have the scars, the war wounds.  They haven’t been slapped enough in order to really understand how to avoid the the pitfalls that can come with a wedding ceremony.  I’m talking about anything that breaks the concentration. 

JP:
Nice, nice.  I like that phrase “breaks the concentration”.  

Clint:
The biggest thing is when you need something and it's not there.  Have you ever turned around to the table… Okay listen to this.  This is obviously a while ago.  The couple was going to do a handfasting ceremony.  For those of you not familiar with that, it's really simple.  The couple holds hands and then you can use a cord, ropes, decorative cords, whatever and you talk about aspects of the marriage to be.  I love the language.  We can get into that another time.  I needed the chords.  I have about eight different sets of chords and I let the couples choose and then we use that.  I had left the chords in the bridal suite.  So here's how I handled it.  It's time to do the handfasting and I explain the ritual.  I realize I am not holding the chords and they are not on the table right behind me and nobody near me has them.  So I just and thank goodness for groomsmen because they are really servants and they are at our beck and call.  I just I turn to the best man I said - fortunately the bridal suite was about 50 yards away - and so I just said, “I left I left the ropes in the room.  Can you go get them quickly?”  Then while he was running across the grass to the room I then further explained what we're about to do.  By the time I got done he was back and we went right into it.  But that was one of those make sure this never happens again moments.  Have you ever had anything like that?

JP:
Oh yeah and you know the reality is we all learn the hard way.  So we all need to have one of those experiences in order to learn from it.  No matter how careful we are at some point in time there will be slip up like that.  I had and an experience where the best man did not have the rings.  It was a wedding where it was an event planner I worked with frequently in the past who was really good at what she does.  It’s just one of those things where she forgot to give the rings to the groom, to the best man, and I forgot before the ceremony to double check to make sure he had the rings.  So I turned and I asked for the rings and he shakes his head says he doesn't have them.  I thought he was joking.  I’m thinking, you know, this is not funny.  Just give me the rings.  Suddenly, after doing this a couple of times, it's like I realized OMG, he doesn't have the rings.  Turned out that the rings were back at the hotel.  So what we did was I made a lighthearted comment and we proceeded to the  conclusion of the ceremony.  Then I actually was meeting some people at Starbucks nearby afterwards and I went back to the reception and just before they started their meal the rings arrived and we had a very cute ring exchange.  

Clint:
That's cool.  Logistics don't always give us that opportunity.  Sometimes we gotta go.  There is a guy who has a really busy officiant business in Southern California.  It's GreatOfficiants.com.  He has a stable of officiants.  He’s got about 29 to 30 officiants that work for his company.  JP I know that you and I are sole proprietors and were kind of, you know, here we are.  It's us.  You know what it's like when when someone calls you and you want to be able to to help everybody but you're already booked.  We refer each other but we don't have that kind of a business.  He does.  What that means is that he does a ton of weddings.  Last year his company did about 1000 ceremonies.  He himself is always first in line depending upon what the couple needs.  He has kind of like an emergency kit.  Wedding coordinators have an emergency kit.  Makeup artists, florists, they all have emergency kits.  Officiants, not so much.  But he does.  He always has a battery-powered sound system.  He's got fake rings.  He's got, no I'm serious, he’s got fake rings, extra unity candles.  He does Hawaiian ceremonies so he’s got extra leis.  He does Filipino ceremonies so he’s got coins and the rope and all this kind of stuff.  Now you and I have been blessed to do a lot of interfaith ceremonies and in a lot of different traditions and cultures but he's packed and ready to go.  All that stuff is in his car and every now and then on his Facebook page he’ll express frustration with some of the wedding vendor that you know didn't step up to the plate.  But he was able to fill in the blanks and I admire that.  But that's a tremendous amount of pressure.  To have all of that kind of stuff.  I met him a number of years ago.  I actually have a little bag of fake rings.  There was one wedding before I had any of that.  You know the thing that is silly is that I put together an emergency kit.  And I never take it with me.  Fortunately the level of people we work with there’s hardly ever an issue for concern.  In the the rare occasions where they’ve forgotten the marriage license or they forgot the rings or whatever it doesn't mean the ceremony stops.  I tell everybody the ceremony does not stop.  Have the ceremony.  Tell everybody how much you love each other.  Tell everybody: this is my wife. This is my husband.  Ceremony does not stop.  You stay on schedule.  Everyone watches.  Everybody applauds you.  There really is no reason for the guests to understand if anything is missing anyway.  

JP:
Exactly.

Clint:
Just fill in the blanks later.  Sometimes with a marriage license you literally fill in the blanks later.  With this one couple his ring was not there and so I just let them use my ring for the ceremony.  The only thing is that I wear like a size 13 ring.  For those of you that don’t know anything about jewelry that's kind of like a fat finger.  His ring size was probably an eight. So when she put it on his finger, his finger was swimming inside this big circle.  But it worked.  The only thing is that there's emotional disconnect because you talk about the significance of the rings and with this ring I thee wed and la la la la la.  Whatever they decide to say.   I felt just a little bit bad because that's my ring.  That’s not your ring.  You don’t get to keep that ring.   So a little bit was lost there because of that.

JP:
Right right right.  Interesting.  

Clint:
Have you ever considered having like an emergency kit?

JP:
Well, it’s not actually an emergency kit.  I always have in my car in extra shirt and tie in case I have lunch before the ceremony and I splatter my white shirt.  So I always have the white shirt and tie in the car.  I have in the car a binder of the readings that I had sent to the couple.  So I have a backup of readings.  

Clint:
Do you have your ceremony in front of you?  How much is right in front of you to be read and how much of it just comes from you?  

JP:
Well, because I do a lot of keynote speaking and because I teach I have most of the ceremonies memorized.   And like yourself I'm able to think on my feet.  You're right.  Nobody knows what's supposed to happen in the ceremony.  So I always say to people the only person who can make a mistake is me.  Since I’m not going to admit it, nobody’s going to know there’s been a mistake.  

Clint:
There you go.  That’s the key.  Never let them see you sweat. 

JP:
Exactly.  Because we're in a bubble, the three of us, myself or yourself and whoever couple is, people in the last row don't know what's going on.  I mean that's a little harsh but because people from the middle row on to the they don’t necessarily see exactly what's happening.  So, I've had issues with the rings before.  The ring for the bride wasn't there and I just turn to the maid of honor and asked for her ring.  The way I’m doing it people think that it's part of the ritual.  

Clint;
Right.  Because it's common for the maid of honor to be holding the ring.  

JP:
Exactly.  I thing the most humorous aspect of the rings was one time they had the rings tied to a pillow and they had the three-year-old present the rings.  I'm always nervous when it's a three-year-old.  And I’m a little nervous about the pillow because I wasn't a Boy Scout and what about the knot?  That sort of thing.  So I pulled the knot for the one ring and it slips out beautifully.  I pull the string for the second ring and it just forms this incredible knot.  

Clint:
With those little ribbons.  And we have big man fingers.

JP:
I could not get the ring off.  So then the groom tries.  He can’t do it.  Now people are laughing.  The best man tries.  The maid of honor tries.  Finally it took the photographer to whip out a penknife and cut it off.  So after that, whenever people say they’re going to have the pillow I start to hyperventilate.  

Clint:
What I do is when they say there’s going to be a Ring Bearer, the first first question is how old?  And if they tell me something - this is just kind of a basic rule of thumb - anything younger than six, I’ll say, well, you may not want them to have the actual rings.  If for some reason somebody, some emotional connection to the ritual, whatever it is, then I say, okay, I just want to make sure that I tie the rings onto the pillow.  It's just my own security blanket.  I tie it.  I know exactly how secure it is.  I know exactly how to untie it.  If I'm in control of that then when they get up in front of me… Here's the other thing that I do.  I'll make sure the kid goes directly up the aisle right to the best man.  Like immediately.  Because then the best man can get the rings off of the pillow while nobody is looking.  They are looking at the bride.  The bride is about to do her processional, which is the entrance, and everybody’s back is facing the altar, so to speak, and then I tell the best man, get those rings off of there.  Make sure they’re really secure in your pocket or on your fingers or whatever.  Then let the kid go away.  My reasoning is to do all that, it may sound a little of obsessive-compulsive, but I'm thinking of the child.  It's the kid that could suffer the most because people are kinda dopey and they'll think that they're making a joke in kidding around.  But children take stuff to heart.  Somebody will inevitably say, “Well, you almost ruined the wedding.”  You know kids really think that.  There are some adults that are dopey and they think that too.  Anything you can do to protect the child so that you can avoid 30 years of therapy then it's worth it.  It’s totally worth it.  There was one, we were at the beach.  So you can imagine the ring hits the sand and whoa nelly.  But the bride said, no he really wants to carry the rings.  I just went, okay, step by step by step.  Let me tie them to make sure that it’s good.  Go right to the best man.  It’s all the name of protecting that child from someone. 

JP:
I will tell you you're very nice because if it was on the beach and my rule of thumb is if you are not old enough to have a beer you're not old enough to have the real rings.  Having said that, I agree with you.  There are times when the child may be the couple’s child.  So they want the child to present the rings.  First of all, when it's a young child, I referred to it as the protector of the rings.  So they kind of give it that, you know, Lord of the Rings feel in a it's kind of manly. 

Clint:
Oh, wait.  I have to interrupt you.  Remember where you are.  One of the creepiest things ever, speaking of Lord of the Rings.  There was a ringbearer that when I was in the groom’s room checking everything the kid kept saying, “My preciousssss!”  Oh my gosh.  I kind of slowly backed out of the room.  It was very funny and very creepy all same time.  Okay, go ahead. 

JP:
What I really trying to do is to encourage people rather than the pillow to have the rings in a decorative box.  I actually had really young children who they wanted to have the rings they put it in a whimsical type of box that captured the theme of the wedding.  I would be so hyper nervous on the beach with the pillow.  I would have said to them just get a clamshell or something. However, let me say in all of these many years doing weddings, I could count on one hand the number of times someone dropped the ring. 

Clint:
Oh sure, yeah.  But it only takes that one time. The beach weddings are interesting because there were a couple of times instead of having a pillow or a box that actually have shells.  Open shells.  The rings were to sit on the shells and be delivered.  Assuming that the shells were going to stay completely horizontal.  

JP:
It’s especially difficult here in Southern California because no matter what the season no matter what time of the year our beaches are always windy.

Clint:
The wind really picks up the closer you get to Sunset.  That's another thing.  Okay, let's move off of the rings.  When the wind picks up, what I say to every maid of honor, if the bride has a veil I say, there is a possibility that during the ceremony I’m going to look at you and say would you please hold that.  It doesn't mean you take it off and give it to the maid of honor.  What it means is the maid of honor just takes a step, reaches out with what we call the upstage hand which is the the one farthest away from the guests, and just holds the edge of the veil so it's not a distraction.  Because when the wind swirls, have you seen it where that's like a snake dance?  Now there are little weights.  Somebody invented little veil weights that are a godsend.  Have you seen those?  Not everybody is aware or knows how to get them.  If they have the veil and they're in a windy location.  I always try to say, oh, your going to get married at ba ba ba.  Just be aware gets a little breezy.  

JP:
Right.  Now as men we will never understand the emotional attachment the bride has to a veil.  Because when the wind comes, I just want to say, take it off.  

Clint:
You know that's really easy to do because it is just a comb. 

JP:
My experience has been maid of honors are so fabulous.  They are just right there.  And jump to.  The overwhelming majority of brides know how to pick a good maid of honor. 

Clint:
We’re almost out of time but one real quickly about the maid of honor.  Sometimes when everybody stands up for the bride's entrance these girls that are sometimes really invested in their friend and the magic of this friend's wedding day.  Everybody stands up then all of a sudden they can't see the bride walk up the aisle.  So there were a couple of times where I've said to the bridesmaids, “Come here.  Come here.”  And they all come close to me, look up the aisle and I always think from the bride’s standpoint how cool that is.  Where you see the little heads of the bridesmaids just lit up.  Maybe there’s some tears as they watch.  Then when she gets about halfway up, I’ll say, “Okay.  Go back, go back.”   Do what we can in order to share that moment. 
Well, we’ve run out of time.  This was good.  We’re probably going to pick this up next week unless of course, you know, we just go off on another tangent.  Once again I want to remind you that we really want your feedback.  Go to the website.  WeddingCeremonyPodcast.com.  Click on the email button.  Send us a note: what you want us to talk about.  What you hope we will never talk about again.  Good luck with that.  And anything else that you can offer us so that we can make this the best it can possibly be.  JPRWeddings.com is JP’s website.  I’m at ReverendClint.com.  We will have some special announcements over the next few weeks on things that we have come up with that I think will help a lot of people.  We’ll have some seminars and some products that will make available to you.  You'll see them posted on the website.  Also, JP has written some books.  You can go to Amazon and put in JP Reynolds and his e-books will come up.  They're just fantastic.

JP:
Thank you, Clint, for that plug. Onward and upward. 

Clint:
Thank you very much.  Take care.  We’ll see you next time of the Wedding Ceremony Podcast.